Easier? Dancer vs Summoner Debate

[Risvertasashi]

Beg your pardon? DNC, no need to rearrange, completely static rotation? No procs, no rng?

And even while I'd agree with MCH with the theoretically completely static rotation, you'll still have to rearrange depending on downtime, which is NOT the case for 6.0 SMN.

Please read more carefully. I was talking about MCH's rotation being static, not DNC.

DNC is simple, though it is proc based but still much easier to optimize than, say, BRD. But DNC also has no cast times and no melee attacks, making it easier - especially in raid situations and for new players. No need to plan around boss mechanics. In this MCH and DNC are the same so it's... do you want to push procs, or do you want a completely static sequence of buttons? MCH offers the latter for those that want something easily accomplished through pure rote/muscle memory. DNC's procs are not challenging in the slightest, but it does require some brain engagement - just not for movement and melee planning, because DNC still has none of that.

--

But, as I said. I understand most of these people can't be reasoned with. They want to hate on SMN and the main way to do so is to declare to everyone that it's the easiest job. It's just a bit harmful to new players, to recommend something with movement restrictions (especially while leveling) to people wanting a more casual experience.

[Ggwppino]

But, as I said. I understand most of these people can't be reasoned with. They want to hate on SMN and the main way to do so is to declare to everyone that it's the easiest job. It's just a bit harmful to new players, to recommend something with movement restrictions (especially while leveling) to people wanting a more casual experience.

You are right but for the simple fact that before 70 smn is a caster.
But I think the post was born taking into consideration that the two jobs were 90, also because the dnc cannot be played by someone who starts playing.
Furthermore, the post was born by making assumptions that are no longer true: the smn no longer has to manage the pet, the smn no longer has to manage the mana (except if he dies or if he has to ress more people), the smn no longer has to manage consistently casts, the smn no longer has to manage anything.

[Valence]

Please read more carefully. I was talking about MCH's rotation being static, not DNC.

DNC is simple, though it is proc based but still much easier to optimize than, say, BRD. But DNC also has no cast times and no melee attacks, making it easier - especially in raid situations and for new players. No need to plan around boss mechanics. In this MCH and DNC are the same so it's... do you want to push procs, or do you want a completely static sequence of buttons? MCH offers the latter for those that want something easily accomplished through pure rote/muscle memory. DNC's procs are not challenging in the slightest, but it does require some brain engagement - just not for movement and melee planning, because DNC still has none of that.

--

But, as I said. I understand most of these people can't be reasoned with. They want to hate on SMN and the main way to do so is to declare to everyone that it's the easiest job. It's just a bit harmful to new players, to recommend something with movement restrictions (especially while leveling) to people wanting a more casual experience.

I am re-reading carefully, and while this is not my native language, I have a hard time seeing how obviously the "aside from DNC" necessarily swings more in an "as opposed to" way than in an "next to" way, the latter being the one I understood from context. Apologies if it was the other.

Still having problems understanding how the couple of cast times are even a problem (especially with swiftcast), more than iajutsu is supposedly a problem on Samurai tbh. Because the cast time is longer, even though there is a lot less of them? Okay.

I do believe a better metric rather than just "difficulty" would be intricacies and rotational depth, which it has none, where DNC still retains at least a little.

[NullPointerException]

It's because your take is blatantly ridiculous. Why is any movement restriction immediately bad for new players? SMN's core rotation barely changes after they get all their gem summons at around 50. Every button you get is mandatory for you to press before you move to the next summon. The existence of movement restrictions, whether range or cast time, applies to the majority of classes and does NOT make SMN unique. Most of the movement restrictions on new SMN have been removed anyways compared to ShB (which was also NOT hard at all to learn). If you want to play CASTER, you better learn how CASTING works!

This game already does not leave any difficulty for casual players, you can press a single button the whole time, sit on the floor, be dead, whatever. There is no DPS check until savage. You are not even required to learn your class to basic competency until maybe extremes. If you crave a "casual experience" you can just auto-attack, people can't flame you anyways per ToS. SMN has 4 hard-casted spells every minute, and with swiftcast you can make that 3. People want to hate on SMN because actually does not have enough casts to even deserve to be called a caster, let alone outperform red mage in high-end raids.