The current state of the "MMORPG" FFXIV is unsustainable. Here's why

[Shinkuno]

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that a comment like yours of "bad" is entirely your own personal subjective opinion, not any magical objective fact, and that it conflicts with the overwhelming majority of the actual playerbase's opinion. The closest thing any of us can come to claiming an objective "fact" here would be discussing the main target audience as casual gamers, which there is a veritable mountain of support to show.

People like me aren't "afraid" of change; we just don't want to see a game that hundreds of thousands of people really enjoy get ruined for all of us because a select few elitists want the game to cater to them instead.

You wouldnt have this game if people didnt complain for years, what makes your version of the game better than the one we want?

[Xirean]

You wouldnt have this game if people didnt complain for years, what makes your version of the game better than the one we want?

It makes more money and SE likes money. /sarcasm

Sorry, couldn't resist lol

[Raven2014]

You wouldnt have this game if people didnt complain for years, what makes your version of the game better than the one we want?

You ... do realize the irony of this logic, don't you? Seem the main complain is "the game is worse than it ever was" for whatever reason, so if the reason it gets to this point is because of people complaining ... Does this mean you complainers only have yourself to blame for the very thing you're complaining about now?

[raelgun]

You ... do realize the irony of this logic, don't you? Seem the main complain is "the game is worse than it ever was" for whatever reason, so if the reason it gets to this point is because of people complaining ... Does this mean you complainers only have yourself to blame for the very thing you're complaining about now?

You are an idiot thinking the people who complained before are the same people complaining now.

You know damn well who were the complainers that got us to this point, its not a hard answer.

What so many of you deny is, the game has received changes via playerbase complaints, and its where it got us now and a number of you are happy, some of us feel these changes have gutted out what the rest of us enjoy and place feedback, a lot of you guys just dont like it thats it.

So we can agree complaining does in fact get heard and changes are made to the game, just people do know this just don't want more people knowing about it.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

You are an idiot thinking the people who complained before are the same people complaining now.

You know damn well who were the complainers that got us to this point, its not a hard answer.

What so many of you deny is, the game has received changes via playerbase complaints, and its where it got us now and a number of you are happy, some of us feel these changes have gutted out what the rest of us enjoy and place feedback, a lot of you guys just dont like it thats it.

So we can agree complaining does in fact get heard and changes are made to the game, just people do know this just don't want more people knowing about it.

Complaining also got us HW raids, which gutted the raid community and basically killed the raid scene for almost 2 full years.

[raelgun]

Complaining also got us HW raids, which gutted the raid community and basically killed the raid scene for almost 2 full years.

Complaining didnt get there, the developers were convinced the playerbase simply got better to handle it.

A lot of people that did Alexander simply were not raiders to begin with at the time.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Complaining didnt get there, the developers were convinced the playerbase simply got better to handle it.

A lot of people that did Alexander simply were not raiders to begin with at the time.

No, people complained final coil was too easy. So we got gordias.


Most of the more casual groups from the coil days were killed in gordias. Coil areas had a ton of people outside them even late in the tiers. Alexander was starkly different.

[raelgun]

No, people complained final coil was too easy. So we got gordias.

Not really, the amount of people that did coil was tiny.

The amount of non raiders that tried to step into HW raiding got burnt yes, but thats on them as the idea of raid prep and getting better with your class and synergising with other players was something people never thought to do.

[Tint]

No, people complained final coil was too easy. So we got gordias.


Most of the more casual groups from the coil days were killed in gordias. Coil areas had a ton of people outside them even late in the tiers. Alexander was starkly different.

We also got the story mode for the raids at the same time, so for many people there was not much point in putting in the effort for the harder version anymore, especially since Gordias was overtuned.

But this is a story for "why people avoid getting better at the game".

But this normal mode is relevant for this topic as well: The rewards of normal mode are simply not goot enough, so why bother playing it?

This is a problem with the game as a whole: The tomestone gear is so good that it makes basically any other content except savage dead on arrival. Why bother getting normal mode raid gear? Why bother getting 24 man raid gear? Why bother getting the deep dungeon weapon?
Why bother getting the gear from Bozja when that was a thing back in ShB?

[ForteNightshade]

No, people complained final coil was too easy. So we got gordias.


Most of the more casual groups from the coil days were killed in gordias. Coil areas had a ton of people outside them even late in the tiers. Alexander was starkly different.

The people complaining weren't the ways actually clearing Coil but rather non-raiders with the perception a tier dying in only a few days meant it must be super easy. That mentality was derived entirely from WoW, which was at the height of its popularity back then with their Savage equivalent taking several weeks.

Furthermore, it's straight up disingenuous to say anyone asked for Gordias. The dev team has openly acknowledged they didn't test it properly; going through each mechanic individually but never actually clearing the fight from start to finish, which caused it to be widely overtuned. We saw this carry over into Midas where A6S bad to be nerfed during the tier itself because of how much harder it was than A7S. Another major factor in both Gordias and Midas' poor success rate is the lack of cross world party finder, cooldown resets, raid gear being the job specific artifact gear making in impossible to switch to another job even within the same subrole for Gordias and woefully poor balancing. Astro wasn't just bad, it was downright worthless in Gordias.

There were many, many throughout early Heavensward and the disaster that was Gordias. Difficulty played a large factor, there is no denying that. But it was neither the only one nor was it the raid community demanding it.

You load this with speculation. And even if it did come with bugs we'd report them and work it out. God knows it's not like we haven't before. Exceptional times require exceptional attention. The massive population boom was pretty exceptional. I do agree with you things are decided in advance, when its business as usual.

You speak like someone who's been working at a job for 20 years and have grown so complacent that even if the opportunity of a lifetime for your company shows up you couldn't be bothered to lift an extra finger to see if it'll work out.

"Eh" its fine.

Much as Raven and I have disagreed in the past, he's correct in his assessment. Endwalker was mostly finalized long before the exodus of WoW happened. At best, the only bits of content not near completion would be the latter Criterion Dungeons or Raid Tiers we'll soon be seeing but the foundation was likely well underway. They couldn't, for example, decide to scrap Island Sanctuary to begin work on Bozja v2. I mean, they theoretically could but you'd get a near literal copy/paste of what already existed because they simply wouldn't have the time to develop new assets, animations and etc.

Once an expansion is near its intended release date, everything is done and dusted. Any criticisms, complaints and dissatisfaction can only be incorporated for the next expansion. Now what Square could have done to keep potential interest is be less secretive with what's coming in 7.0, what improvements and new additions they hope to achieve and what can be improved upon with the current content. We'll see in the forthcoming Live Letter and Fanfests if that happens.