SE, don't overthink Summoner 7.0. Just give people what they want. Just do it.

[Renathras]

Yes, but you're the same one who says that the current smn is fine as it is. But you're blaming its bland essence on raiders.

I'm saying the reason for the change are because of raiders. I'm not saying SMN is bland or that I find it disagreeable. I think SMN is the only DPS Job in the game that is really enjoyable to play, has good party utility, seems to be balanced in damage output (that is, it doesn't do so little that no one brings it to raids and it's not topping the charts like SAM due to having utility and not being selfish so it isn't dominating, either), and it's widely played (and presumably enjoyed) by a lot of Caster players. Collectively, this indicates it is fine as it is.

You also practically misrepresented the words in that post,

Which words? Be specific, please.

I'm generally opposed to people making nebulous "kitchen sink" statements that could be true or false but are impossible to even address unless they give specifics, and because someone's trying to use one as a rampant derailing ad hominem in another thread (not saying you are, but they are), I'd like to get the specifics of what you're thinking here before addressing it further, if at all.

Also a small curiosity: why should a smn after lvl 25 use Physick?

EDIT: Before you quote me, I'd like to withdraw the Physick line since you were talking about pre-50. Let me step back when I'm wrong.

Physic is pretty useful when working on your ARR Relic, even now. That "Surprise!" FATE where you have to keep at least one NPC guard alive while fighting all those Kobols is REALLY good if you can patch them up while also drawing the enemies (and was already really hard on SMN since you can't Titan tank them). Several other FATEs also have NPCs to keep up or are a boss-type fight where they hit kinda hard on non-Tanks, so having the ability to heal yourself can really help. When you only have 1500 HP or so, a 600 HP cure is actually still pretty useful. I did my SMN one in 5.3 or so, and found Physic was useful for all the FATEs I was soloing.

It's also dubiously useful in PotD, and is useful in solo instances like the SMN Job quests in that level range. This is partly true no matter what gear you're wearing (even pure INT gear) because stats on gear up to level 50 are low enough that the +10 mind vs not having it leaves the spell still doing pretty close to the same potency. And also as Ty pointed out, if you actually wear the combined Caster/Healer gear of ARR, it has INT and MND both on it, meaning SMN is doing as much healing with Physic at those levels in that gear as SCH. (Now I'm kinda wondering if doing PotD level 1-50 content is easier or harder on SMN if you wear that gear...probably harder, but it's amusing to consider...)

Not saying it's much, but it does have some niche uses.

Also: I tip my hat to your EDIT. Lots of people won't do that. So fair enough and I won't hammer you on it (I probably wouldn't have anyway and would have just said the above, but I definitely try not to hammer people for admitted honest mistakes). I'd rather praise someone doing it than anything.

Technically, Physick is quite usable until you get proper level 50 gear or start wearing your level 45 ARR relic gear, as from levels 1 - 50, casters and healers share the same gear which is equip-pable by all Disciplines of War or Magic that offers both INT and MND at the same time. There's still not much of a reason to do so normally, but it is as roughly effective as Vercure is up until that point, so in a pinch, you actually can save yourself or someone else with it. Cutters Cry, for example, seems to shake up a lot of sprouts with The Dragon's Voice and The Ram's Voice, which I think are still untelegraphed since it's an optional pre-50 dungeon?

Yup, all this.

Honestly, I wish they still did that for leveling gear in all the other expansions. It's just so much more convenient for leveling an alt Job, and it SHOULDN'T be game-breaking since the cases of wanting that INT and MND on gear would be limited to......well, just SMN, and just for Physic. So it shouldn't be game breaking at all and would cut down on the art workload (so they could do other artsy things) and shouldn't upset any balances because people will upgrade to the level cap entry level cap Job gear (the freebie stuff they give us) and then the entry level cap tome gear first chance they get anyway.

Wasn't trying to be snippy, for the record. It came to mind more just because I find it interesting how a button can go from niche but usable to, usable only for the fact that it technically charges the party's limit break yet restores less HP than auto-healing once you start wearing of casting gear. But also it's a good reminder for anyone passing by that you can still use it in leveling dungeons and whatnot if needed.

Yeah, though to truly benefit from it, you'd have to carry some level 49 DoM gear to throw on when you saw that you'd zoned into an instance less than level 50.

Though...wait, does it fill the LB gauge somehow usefully? Or did you more mean "it technically does this, but less than even just casing Ruin and I'm mentioning it only for the sake of completeness"?

But just because that’s what it is doesn’t mean that’s what it has to be.

This. In a game where Vercure and Clemency exist, and where SCH and SMN have been completely separated other than Resurrection, there's no logic to SMN Physic not being at least a Vercure-lite. (Go to Actions and Traits on SCH and you'll see that ONLY Res is listed as coming from Arcanist; I remember when ShB hit that my SCH's Physic was grayed out and listed as ACN/SMN, so it's a separate ability in the game code from "Physic B", the SCH one. Which means there's LITERALLY no reason it couldn't be changed to INT scale since the SCH one is a separate ability that would still scale from MND just fine, and with no Cross-Class abilities, you wouldn't have to worry about weird interactions like, say, THM/BLM Cross-Classing the ACN/SMN one for some kind of "unfair advantage" or something.)

just to chime on that. during the live letter before endwalker launched it seems that they "forgotten" that it even a button. The reason why i say that is during the changes to smn, keep in mind that they did mention there was two different version of the smn and we go the one with pet flavored actions. They was wiling to get rid of the rez before the heal.

Agree. It's like they just forgot about it. They outright mentioned Resurrection and debating keeping it, but seem to have just...forgotten...that Physic even existed.

Here you break through an already open door. I don't think there's anyone against something as sensible as changing a freaking variable in the game code and it scales to int. It is inexcusable that in 2023 this ability has not yet been fixed.

Agreed.

The problem with smn is also that it's bland and it is a fact.

Disagreed.

It being bland is a subjective opinion, not a fact, and not an opinion everyone agrees with. Remember the difference between the two - not trying to be pedantic, just so we're on the same page:

"That painting has red paint." (Fact...well, if we assume the painting has red paint, and let's for this situation.)
"The red in that painting is pretty." (Opinion - not everyone finds red pretty, or that red pretty, and whether or not red is pretty isn't a factual statement, it's an opinion. As would be finding it ugly.)

"bland" is a taste, so generally, it's going to be an opinion. I don't find SMN bland at all. /shrug I'm not saying this to diss you, I just feel a lot of these discussions would work out better if people didn't state, of non-factual opinions, "it is a fact".