Question for the people who don't dislike the 2nd relic step

[Raven2014]

That's literally like those people saying that islands are supposed to be done at a very slow pace, it's a pretty ridiculous argument, slowing on purpose to make it last longer does not make it better content

Uh ... let me guess, you're one of those meta person who believe the only way to play a class is copy-pasted stuffs of the balance discord. And if you don't play your group with a meta comp you're doing it wrong ... ?


Frankly in the pass the only difference is you were restricted to specific type of content in order to generate result, and you're forced into them whether you want or not. But with the 1500 open-ended you can do whatever you want to meet it. For example people who are saying they would prefer to have "forced" you to run x amount of time running certain alliance raid ... well, what's stopping you from telling yourself you only gonna try to farm tome using Alliance raid? And sure, if you just want it to be fast and get it over with ... jump on the train. And you can also get tome doing anything in between those 2 extremes. The choice is yours.


I often wonder why people are against choice so much. But then posts like yours just show the issue is some people find it impossible to follow their own free-will and must always adhere to some kind of trench-standard set by someone else. Just like I have seen someone people absolutely miserable, or at least not playing a job in a way that would be fun for them because they felt compelled following the meta for that extra 1-5%.

just wait till 6.3.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.4.5 guys it gets better
just wait till 6.5.5 guys it gets better
just wait till next expansion guys it gets better
just wait till first patch guys it gets better
and the cycle of excuses goes on

Wrong. I have never told now or before it will get better. That's why I tell you to wait till the end. Also, unlike you who seem antagonize every moment of playing the game that you feel to constantly need an excuse for the future. I don't need to make excuse because I'm generally happy with the moments. I look forward to the next patch or next expansion because I'm excited for them, not desperately looking for a life line to hinge on like you seem to do.

[Stormpeaks]

Uh ... let me guess, you're one of those meta person who believe the only way to play a class is copy-pasted stuffs of the balance discord. And if you don't play your group with a meta comp you're doing it wrong ... ?

So what you are saying is that you should just "yolo it" and pick what you want, instead of thinking about your party, hindering the entire party because you decide to underperform ? That's very ridiculous

Wrong. I have never told now or before it will get better. That's why I tell you to wait till the end. Also, unlike you who seem antagonize every moment of playing the game that you feel to constantly need an excuse for the future. I don't need to make excuse because I'm generally happy with the moments.

If you are happy, that's great, some people care about having content to do in between patches, actual current content, not old content, and using "yeah just wait till the end of the expansion to judge" is how WoW failed for many years, getting a little bit on the upside now with DF, but it still failed for many years, the constant argument of "just wait to judge" leads to that.

[Raven2014]

So what you are saying is that you should just "yolo it" and pick what you want, instead of thinking about your party, hindering the entire party because you decide to underperform ? That's very ridiculous

No where as ridiculous as you're attempting to generalize thing to the extreme and putting word in other people mouth.

I said

... extra 1-5%.

So if anyone want to berate me for not running a meta-built and thus missing a couple of % as "being" burden to the party, I'll just tell them to never be in a party with me then. Same goes for anyone who think you either need to run a meta comp or it's bad party. Oh and before you claim something stupid as "but that 2% could be the difference between a clear and enrage!". If a group hit enrage because me missing a couple % from the absolute best, then the problem isn't with me.

If you are happy, that's great, some people care about having content to do in between patches, actual current content, not old content, and using "yeah just wait till the end of the expansion to judge" is how WoW failed for many years, getting a little bit on the upside now with DF, but it still failed for many years, the constant argument of "just wait to judge" leads to that.

That's why I didn't say you need to be happy like I am, if you choose to be a miserable pessimist that's your choice. I'm just pointing out to you the choice of being happy and being unhappy is - indeed - at the end - yours. I personally would never let myself get to your level of perssims, you know why? 'Cause I for sure would disappear long before I reach that point.

I will play the game for as long as it please me, and I support the game for as long as I believe at it future. But I'm not married to it, it's not my job that I have to do to pay bill regardless of my enjoyment. It's a game, and I play because I enjoy it, and I will stop playing the moment I no longer enjoy it. I will never play a "game" just to antagonizing myself like you are.

[Stormpeaks]

That's why I didn't say you need to be happy like I am, if you choose to be a miserable pessimist that's your choice. I'm just pointing out to you the choice of being happy and being unhappy is - indeed - at the end - yours. I personally would never let myself get to your level of perssims, you know why? 'Cause I for sure would disappear long before I reach that point.

Thankfully for me, housing saves this game for me, else I would stop playing yes, because the rest of the "content" leaves a lot to be desired, and is almost non existant. Long lasting content at least.

[Nezerius]

Because whether you consider the Zenith weapons part of the Zodiac quest or not, they are in fact steps required to get them. Saying they aren't is just not true by fact, and the weapons even share the same design all the way to the Zeta step. But for the sake of argument, let's say Zenith is an entirely different relic, even though it is not. My point still stand and may be even stronger with this weird line of thought, because now you're telling me we could fully complete an entire Relic in two or three days, with each step taking no more than a couple hours tops. So: Short steps don't mean bad quests. Length has nothing to do with quality.

If you've played during 2.0 you'd know that there was no indication on the Zodiac Weapon Saga being a thing. The quest was carried over from 1.0, and trimmed down significantly on its objectives. The journal entry for "A Relic Reborn" even specifies that it's the final stage of the restoration process. Not to mention that the journal doesn't even list these quests under the Zodiac Weapons tab. The addition of using the Thavnairian Mists was specifically added to +1 the relic (it literally added a +1 to the name), so it could match iLvl from the other gear purchased with Tomestones of Mythology.

As for them re-using the relic model for the Zodiac Weapon Sage, the game at that stage relied heavily on re-using models from 1.0 or FFXI. Likely because SE was very cautious about giving a large budget for a game that had already failed once before.

I made no such general statement of quality of the sort.

"There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that."
It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to tell that this boils down to "Just wait until the next patch." You're also still completely focused on the word "better", rather than the entire statement.

You have all the right in the world to worry, but pretending this step is THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP I feel is born out of ignorance as to how bad relic steps can actually get, or is just being alarmist. I don't think you're either.

Calling this the worst step ever however is a plain overreaction.

I fail to see where I have pretended that this step is "THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP"

I'm pointing out that having a step that's essentially a copy paste job of the previous one (down to buying 3 "meteorite chunks") is a worrying trend. Every relic weapon has had short steps, but none of them have had steps copied like this in such a blatant manner.

[Xirean]

I'm pointing out that having a step that's essentially a copy paste job of the previous one (down to buying 3 "meteorite chunks") is a worrying trend. Every relic weapon has had short steps, but none of them have had steps copied like this in such a blatant manner.

Honestly kinda wish they did. All that juggling between multiple currencies was annoying and arbitrary. Why bother dealing with literal garbage currencies and items when you can just use the existing currency that is readily available? You'll be farming the content either way. It's basically a streamlined grind.

[DiaDeem]

If you've played during 2.0 you'd know that there was no indication on the Zodiac Weapon Saga being a thing. The quest was carried over from 1.0, and trimmed down significantly on its objectives. The journal entry for "A Relic Reborn" even specifies that it's the final stage of the restoration process. Not to mention that the journal doesn't even list these quests under the Zodiac Weapons tab. The addition of using the Thavnairian Mists was specifically added to +1 the relic (it literally added a +1 to the name), so it could match iLvl from the other gear purchased with Tomestones of Mythology.

There you go, short steps aren't necessarily bad. I'm glad you understood at least one of my points.

You're also still completely focused on the word "better", rather than the entire statement.

Again... my statement was about length specifically, not quality. Sad to see this one didn't get through you, no matter how much I tried to explain it.

"There will be long steps ahead, don't you worry about that."
It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to tell that this boils down to "Just wait until the next patch."

I literally said I'd eat my words if that doesn't happen. What else do you want? Sad to see you missed that one as well.

I fail to see where I have pretended that this step is "THE WORST RELIC QUEST STEP"

Are you even reading me anymore? I literally said in my last response that I didn't think you were that.

I'm done trying to get through you. I explained my thoughts, conceded some stuff, but I don't think you're even paying attention to what I've been saying, seeing particularly how you didn't even seem to care or notice what I said about you not being an alarmist or that I literally don't mind finding out I was wrong if no lengthy stuff comes later.

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. To point out that you're worried? You're right, we've never had the same step repeated before, so of course you're entitled to be worried. I also just mentioned that was valid position in my last post, but again: You're either not actually reading what I say, or you're just choosing to ignore on purpose, so what's the point.

As for what I was trying to accomplish, the same thing I've been saying from the begining: This was only my answer to OP. I don't mind this step because even if it's not great, there's been much worse in the past.

I'm out.

[ReynTime]

The arguments in favor of this using 'flavor' as a reason are some of the worst arguments I have ever seen.
If the lack of specific tasks vs tomes is just "flavor", then you can apply that logic to every other content in the game. Jobs, dungeons, gear, FATEs, bosses, enemies, sidequests. Let's reduce everything to what objectively sets them apart... which is not much. I'm sure that wouldn't make the experience more shallow at all!

As for them re-using the relic model for the Zodiac Weapon Sage, the game at that stage relied heavily on re-using models from 1.0 or FFXI. Likely because SE was very cautious about giving a large budget for a game that had already failed once before.

The game still does this with gear and with enemy models. To this day we still get bosses and enemies that use the same model and animations of enemies introduced in 1.0 with minor surface alterations masking it. Only trial and raid bosses are entirely original.

[Rithy255]

Grinding experts is about as interesting as grinding a random step like do "x" dungeon 5 times or do "x" trial 20 times or whatever relic steps would have been in place, Simply it's not going to be a fun grind either way, so i rather it just be simple, at least with grinding for purple tomes I can just do some roulettes and have more Varity in what I do.

If people want to talk about the "lack of casual post msq content" then I agree but I don't exactly think a long annoying grind doing some random thing is fun for a lot of people, my main question is what do people want in place of it? what sort of content are people really expecting from a "relic grind"

[Nezerius]

There you go, short steps aren't necessarily bad. I'm glad you understood at least one of my points.

It amuses me that all you got out of that part of my post is "short steps aren't necessarily bad".

Are you even reading me anymore? I literally said in my last response that I didn't think you were that.

This begs the question why you even bothered adding that entire sentence to your post to begin with. It doesn't appear to apply to anyone you've been replying to.

Again... my statement was about length specifically, not quality. Sad to see this one didn't get through you, no matter how much I tried to explain it.

I literally said I'd eat my words if that doesn't happen. What else do you want? Sad to see you missed that one as well. I'm done trying to get through you. I explained my thoughts, conceded some stuff, but I don't think you're even paying attention to what I've been saying, seeing particularly how you didn't even seem to care or notice what I said about you not being an alarmist or that I literally don't mind finding out I was wrong if no lengthy stuff comes later.

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here. To point out that you're worried? You're right, we've never had the same step repeated before, so of course you're entitled to be worried. I also just mentioned that was valid position in my last post, but again: You're either not actually reading what I say, or you're just choosing to ignore on purpose, so what's the point.

The last part of your post kinda blends in with the other parts of it. So I combined it into a single quote to more easily reply to it.
The point I was trying to get across is that "just wait for the next patch" is a rather empty statement. Unfortunately, you chose to tunnelvision on the word "better".

And no, I didn't miss the part about you being prepared to eat your own words. But I'm also someone who doesn't see any merit in someone eating their words when the statement is relatively empty to begin with.

As for what I was trying to accomplish, the same thing I've been saying from the begining: This was only my answer to OP. I don't mind this step because even if it's not great, there's been much worse in the past.

Kinda weird to accept a step for the simple fact that it could've been worse. It's like accepting a glass of milk that's been out in the sun, simply because it's not spoilt.

My point being that we've had short steps, and that's fine. But we haven't had two lazily done short steps in a row, with a 4 month waiting period in-between. At that point, it starts becoming a worrying trend. One that I hope doesn't extend to patch 6.45.

I'm out.

See ya.