Well I think we at a new low .

[Raskbuck]

I depends on what you mean by "better product".

So far, you've been exchanging money for what is currently available. Why would you think that will change?

Heck, even Blizzard appears to have upped their game with their current expansion, after years of declining subscriptions. The relevant part of that sentence is years of declining subscriptions.

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make, if I'm being honest.

[DPZ2]

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make, if I'm being honest.

Is this clearer? Because it's a rewording of exactly what I wrote before:

Until Square Enix experiences declining subscriptions, why would they change a formula that makes them money?

Currently, the game is booming.

If Players keep their subscriptions because they do not want to lose housing (frankly I've been satisfied with FC rooms and Apartments for any 'housing' I want to play with) ... how is Square Enix supposed to know that, unless it hits their pocketbook?

Complaints on the forums, coming from the same 2000 people who log in regularly, isn't enough.

[Raskbuck]

Is this clearer? Because it's a rewording of exactly what I wrote before:

Until Square Enix experiences declining subscriptions, why would they change a formula that makes them money?

Currently, the game is booming.

If Players keep their subscriptions because they do not want to lose housing (frankly I've been satisfied with FC rooms and Apartments for any 'housing' I want to play with) ... how is Square Enix supposed to know that, unless it hits their pocketbook?

Complaints on the forums, coming from the same 2000 people who log in regularly, isn't enough.

So what you are saying is that we shouldn't provide feedback for the things we don't agree with? Isn't that exactly how 1.0 happened?

I get what you are saying is that we should unsubscribe to prove a point - and lose our houses in the process - but deleting all those hours and collective effort (as well as winning the lottery) would just put the final nail in the coffin for us and make us quit for good.

Or is that what you want? To suppress and eliminate dissenting comments?

[DPZ2]

So what you are saying is that we shouldn't provide feedback for the things we don't agree with? Isn't that exactly how 1.0 happened??

Final Fantasy 1.0 experienced a massive exodus of players as well as scathing reviews, enough for the company to want to pull the product. Not the same thing.

So, no, that isn't exactly how 1.0 happened.

[Raskbuck]

Final Fantasy 1.0 experienced a massive exodus of players as well as scathing reviews, enough for the company to want to pull the product. Not the same thing.

So, no, that isn't exactly how 1.0 happened.

Because Tanaka stuck to his vision and didn't incorporate feedback. I feel you're being contrarian just for the sake of arguing now.
Do you not remember the ARR PowerPoint slide that highlighted the importance of including player feedback?

[DPZ2]

Because Tanaka stuck to his vision and didn't incorporate feedback. I feel you're being contrarian just for the sake of arguing now.
Do you not remember the ARR PowerPoint slide that highlighted the importance of including player feedback?

1.0 had problems from day one. To believe that "if only Tanaka had listened to us and changed the game it would have been saved" is completely misreading the history of the game. They even had to scrap the game engine to create 2.0. A Realm Reborn was the response.

As for the infamous ARR PowerPoint slides, they are not the Mission Statement for Square Enix in perpetuity. The company has been responding to feedback, just not as quickly, and not to the points you might desire.

I'm certain that if SE ever decides to create a new MMORPG, they'll remember what was written here and, well, ignore all the "complaints" that started with complaint about lazy developers, lazy writers, corrupt company CEOs, and the need for the current Producer to Step Down and Let Somone Else Take Over.

Primarily because reading through all of the muck to find that one shiny stone isn't worth it.

[Raskbuck]

1.0 had problems from day one. To believe that "if only Tanaka had listened to us and changed the game it would have been saved" is completely misreading the history of the game. They even had to scrap the game engine to create 2.0. A Realm Reborn was the response.

I didn't say that, though... and I feel you are twisting my words. It wasn't just performance issues, there were a lot of design issues that could've been addressed to alleviate the pain points, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm certain that if SE ever decides to create a new MMORPG, they'll remember what was written here and, well, ignore all the "complaints" that started with complaint about lazy developers, lazy writers, corrupt company CEOs, and the need for the current Producer to Step Down and Let Somone Else Take Over.

Primarily because reading through all of the muck to find that one shiny stone isn't worth it.

I think this is your main issue with my argument. I never labeled them lazy, corrupt or that Yoshi-P needs to step down. I'm merely offering my feedback - in a civilized manner - about the design philosophy I don't agree with.

I'm not content with the 4 months patch cycle, to give an example, so I come to the forum to voice my concern. But you seem to have taken the opposite extreme and try to dismiss anyone trying to provide constructive criticism, no matter how valid it might be.

I'm guessing you are tired of seeing people fling trash at the developers of the game you care about, and that's understandable, but we have to be mindful of putting everyone in the same bag. I care about the game too, same as you.

[Jojoya]

We gain nothing for praising FOMO, we all lose as players because of it. Let us be upset at that, so we can grow and be a better game. Please.

No one is praising FOMO.

What we're trying to tell everyone is that you must cure yourself of FOMO. Thousands of other players have managed to walk away from the game over the years despite owning a house. FOMO didn't control their lives.

I do know how hard it is. I spent a while breaking a way from WoW. What's more funny is that in my case all those super rare hard to get things I had acquired are still sitting there waiting for me: Headless Horseman's mount, "Love Rocket" mount (can't remember what they renamed it to in the wake of #MeToo), Benediction/Anathema that could no longer be obtained after Cataclysm's release, old Vanilla crafting recipes with unique models that were removed from the game so made me a small fortune when transmog was added, and on and on. Those things mean nothing to me now even if others might still "ooooo" and "ahhhhh" over them. I have no desire to return to the game just to revisit them. They are the past.

Let the house demo and it's not longer being held over your head, tying you to a game you no longer enjoy and likely will not in the future. I don't see SE making radical changes to content design nor going back to old systems that only benefited those with too much time on their hands.

Instead of being the prey of FOMO, passively submitting because you fear to change things in your life, become the predator. That is what helps games to become better - players seeking out the ones that "taste" good then pouncing on them instead of passively accepting what they feel is no better than week old roadkill even if there was a particular part that tasted good. Except in this case that part is like your appendix. Whatever function it might have had in the past, you really don't need it anymore.

In the meantime, I'm about to log into FFXIV because I'm still having fun in the game and have lots of things I want to be doing instead of things I feel obligated to do simply because I've paying $14/mo for the past 6 years for server access.

Please, do yourself a favor and log into a game that is fun for you instead of worrying about one that isn't.

[R041]

...

TL;DR Jojojoyoyayaoyo

Already told you I lapsed 3 subs, and I'm lowering the Retainer count. I'm keeping my houses, you can't have it. I also have another on Gilgamesh.

ERP weebs ain't taking my castles for their sex parties.

[Jojoya]

I'm not content with the 4 months patch cycle, to give an example, so I come to the forum to voice my concern.

Out of curiosity, what MMO have you played that delivers more content more often than this 4 month patch cycle that SE is using?

TL;DR Jojojoyoyayaoyo

Already told you I lapsed 3 subs, and I'm lowering the Retainer count. I'm keeping my house, you can't have it.

ERP weebs ain't taking my castles for their sex parties.

lol don't worry, I don't want it. I can't see myself ever giving up my Mist 60 unless SE releases a knock-your-socks-off FFXIV version of RIFT Dimensions.

Or unless I get bored with the other content in this game and decide it's time to move on.