I love beautiful animations.. but I think they're too slow for this game

[illriginalized]

First of all, a light year is a measure of distance, not time. Getting this wrong doesn't invalidate your opinion (unfortunately) but does give a very poor impression of you.

I have to say, I disagree with your post as strongly as possible. Not every game has to be sped up as much as possible, there are lots of games like this out there already, and some of us like a slower pace in their games. Especially for Marauders (Warriors) the slow but heavy attacks feel appropriate but I like the pace of the game.

As for animation locks, use some skill to play the game. All of the enemies attacks are in some way predictable, attack when it is safe and don't just spam attacks.

This x1000000

I loled at the light year bit too... there's nothing wrong with the animations.. if anything they just need to figure out how to make two different animations flow like liquid.. if that makes any sense.

SE please don't limit the artistic animations.. the colors are vibrant and beautifully detailed.

People... seriously stop comparing WoW to FF. If you wanna brag about what you like in WoW vs FF.. then.. go back to WoW. Seriously stop trying to turn this game into a child's game.. there's FF fans and there's posers who just want a game to entertain themselves with.


Ya I went there.

P.S. during tough battles... most of the time I'm not looking at my own animations but I do enjoy watching the animations of others in my PT.. and during those tough battles most of the time I'm recording it in 1080p resolution. I can watch all the animations afterward.

[Neptune]

Thanks bustacucumbers for chiming in.

I really am not a harsh person in real life, but when I see the kind of illiteracy on display in the last few posts I sort of have to respond just so it doesn't derail the discussion.

First of all, a light year is a measure of distance, not time. Getting this wrong doesn't invalidate your opinion (unfortunately) but does give a very poor impression of you.

I have to say, I disagree with your post as strongly as possible. Not every game has to be sped up as much as possible, there are lots of games like this out there already, and some of us like a slower pace in their games. Especially for Marauders (Warriors) the slow but heavy attacks feel appropriate but I like the pace of the game.

As for animation locks, use some skill to play the game. All of the enemies attacks are in some way predictable, attack when it is safe and don't just spam attacks.

Soo... a poor impression of me? Have you heard of a cosmic speed limit? A light year is a measure of time, the time it takes light to travel in one year. It's also really long distance-wise. That's the great thing about a light year. It's a measure of both distance and time at once. I'd say your reading comprehension could stand to improve about one light-year's worth, this time referring to the distance you'd have to go to do so, and probably also the amount of time it'd take. By the way, it would take you millions of years to walk that far, which coincidentally is probably enough time to improve your reading comprehension and re-think some of your basic skills, like the one you failed to employ that incorrectly related skill to animation lock.

So let me get this straight. To the people that have said this game is a waste of time because "predicting" animation lock is a shitty measure of gameplay, you would say to them, "Learn 2 Play?". I really couldn't have a poorer impression of you, but I hope you post something else to impress me.

To continue the discussion, I agree that the auto-attack of a Marauder should be looked at closely to make sure if it is changed it still looks natural.

I love Final Fantasy XIVs animations. They are fantastic and look the part.

Having played both WoW and SWTOR. I thoroughly dislike their combat system, there isn't nearly enough emphasis on animations and player's barely give a shit to how their character acts in battle, their eyes are just fixed to the User Interface cool-downs. World of Warcraft's animation style is cartoon, and thus character's can get away with moving their body at ridiculous speeds (reference of your first link), both XI and XIV still have a set of human weight to the animations that make them play out their part. Much like Demon and Dark Souls, weighted animations make the combat stand apart. Having a player-wide particle effect (referencing your second link), while it is "cool-looking" such particle effects on all characters, especially if it can be done in town; will drastically affect the performance of some machines, and once again, it suits WoW due to it's artistic style.

Final Fantasy XI and XIV on the other hand are much more slower combat systems that rely on the building of TP, long cast times, and some truly beautiful effects to follow once a player can disperse that TP or cast that spell. I think what you're asking to happen will change the game quite thoroughly, the animation lock is the only issue present, there is no need to change the current animations.

More illiteracy: So let me get this straight, because I suggested that animations be sped up that automatically means "ridiculous speeds" right? Because it's hard for you to think in between two extremes? Because you can't imagine anything in between animation lock and "ridiculous speeds"? Did I get you right?

And also, because I posted a video of a "particle effect" that automatically meant you had to say you don't think particle effects suit FFXIV right? Because it was impossible for you to look at that video and read what I was saying and NOT come away with the impression that we were discussing particle effects? The fact that we were discussing the separation of spell effects from animations didn't even enter into the equation when you decided to post, am I wrong?

I'd really appreciate it if you could equip some reading comprehension gear the next time you join the discussion. Wouldn't it be nice if we were discussing the same thing in this thread? Imagine that.

On another note, while Dark Souls does have weighted animations it also doesn't animation lock you like FFXIV does. Dark Souls is also much better thought out as a combat system than FFXIV. FFXIV tries to draw from both the fast-action pool and the animation-lock pool, and the two don't mix well. In my opinion the slow, weighted animations only really work when you have a hitbox and an action battle system, not an auto attack, target-based system like FFXIV's. If you want to discuss something, why don't we discuss that?

This x1000000

I loled at the light year bit too... there's nothing wrong with the animations.. if anything they just need to figure out how to make two different animations flow like liquid.. if that makes any sense.

SE please don't limit the artistic animations.. the colors are vibrant and beautifully detailed.

People... seriously stop comparing WoW to FF. If you wanna brag about what you like in WoW vs FF.. then.. go back to WoW. Seriously stop trying to turn this game into a child's game.. there's FF fans and there's posers who just want a game to entertain themselves with.


Ya I went there.

P.S. during tough battles... most of the time I'm not looking at my own animations but I do enjoy watching the animations of others in my PT.. and during those tough battles most of the time I'm recording it in 1080p resolution. I can watch all the animations afterward.

So now we are talking about limiting the animations.. and the colors??? Huh!?!?!?! I think the animation should just be faster. If anything, more fluid. Less like you're watching a documentary on animations in a museum and more like real life. Also, I think the beautiful colors should stay! And be separable from the animation when appropriate. It might even be way cooler looking that way.

And also, I feel compelled to address the illiteracy in your post. You felt... compelled.. I'm sure, to call out the "people" who are "comparing" WoW to FF. /airquotes. Has one person in this thread compared the two games? I remember bringing up some features of WoW's animations, but I don't remember comparing the games to each other. In fact, the only references to WoW are on a technical level in this thread. So it must be a child's game if a player expects responsive character movement during battle? I don't think you mean to say that, but then again I'm pretty sure your brain turned off as you started your last paragraph and automatically typed some bullshit about WoW vs FF.

Despite that, I'd really like to hear your more focused opinions on the OP.

[Raistlin]

Right now, battle speed seems ok to me, but animation lock needs to be fixed.

[Neptune]

Right now, battle speed seems ok to me, but animation lock needs to be fixed.

I really think in order to fix the animation lock some adjustment will have to be made to make the animations start and end naturally, but I agree the main point of this discussion is animation lock, not animation speed.

[Black_Rose]

if one developer could make animations still look great while moving then it would be SE.
i'm a main tank, and timing all my vokes and other JA's just to not get hit from a skill (for example chimera) is getting old very fast.
i'm able to swing my sword/axe and run, but not provoke my enemy and run?

animation lock is taking away a great portion of the speed and fun in fights to me, i don't want to plan every single skill ahead just so i won't get hit by one of the many crazy dmg attacks that can nearly take you out in a single shot.

i think there are some skills/animations that can keep their animation locks, like jump/Steel Cyclone, which would just look crazy if i could move mid-air, but most the abilitys that have just a small boost animation don't have to instantly lock you.

[Jinko]

First of all, a light year is a measure of distance, not time. Getting this wrong doesn't invalidate your opinion (unfortunately) but does give a very poor impression of you.

If you want to get technical its both as light travels at a fixed rate which means it can be measured as time also.

As for animation locks, use some skill to play the game. All of the enemies attacks are in some way predictable, attack when it is safe and don't just spam attacks.

This is an idiotic response, lets all dig our heads in the sand...

SE please don't limit the artistic animations.. the colors are vibrant and beautifully detailed.

What has colour and vibrancy got to do with animation ?

People... seriously stop comparing WoW to FF. If you wanna brag about what you like in WoW vs FF.. then.. go back to WoW. Seriously stop trying to turn this game into a child's game.. there's FF fans and there's posers who just want a game to entertain themselves with.

WoW isn't a child's game, I would actually say normal offline Final Fantasy games are more child friendly than WoW.

This isn't about wanting FFXIV to be WoW its about wanting it to be a modern responsive game in 2012-13.

[DeadRiser]

I like the pace of combat in this game. Animation lock isn't that bad and it's being addressed in 2.0 which had been said numeruos times.

A bunch of the battle animations being sped up would look dumb in my opinion. Leave them how they are and plan ahead like you've been doing for the past 2 years. On top of that, I do like some of our lengthier animations. You get a feel for how powerful they are, like whirlwind from marauder/warrior.

Like a couple of others have said, this is a matter of taste.

[Mihana]

A couple things.

Animations in battle.

No. Things seem unnatural as it is with how quickly you enter/exit active mode already. Last thing they need is to make the animations seem even more unnatural. Personally I wish we could go back to the old ones but I understand the need to speed it up a bit. Hopefully these animations will be revamped and fixed for better combat in 2.0.

Buffing yourself

Leave buffs alone. Fine as is. I do wish the effects wouldn't just vanish however soon as you use another skill as they do. Hopefully along with the rest of the animations this will be revamped in 2.0. You've got a point about the whole chaining thing really, but I'm still against speeding stuff up and making everything insta-cast. Maybe allow them to last a bit longer instead. Even a few of the 15 minute abilities feel like a waste because their durations are too short.

Crafting

Sorry but if you don't like waiting then crafting probably isn't for you. No doubt it feels a bit boring, and they do intend to streamline some things. Personally, I'm hoping the upcoming effects to "speed" things up won't make it look even more unnatural. Before they touched it up originally it looked wrong. For example with Culinarian. Your start chopping normally with a knife, and halfway through you go all psycho and start chopping really quickly then slow down. It's a little more fluid now but if they get rid of this may as well just have an instant craft like FFXI. Kneel, create a crystal using some kind of element and bam, insta-craft.

Weaponskills

Animation lock is being dealt with, but takes time. Hopefully by 2.0 we'll have it working better. Part of the interest here is learning when to unleash a crazy flashy combo and when to just deal damage. It's not all about numbers as some people think, it's about trying to keep your butt alive and work as a team. Ifrit's a good example of this too. There's this one guy I can run Ifrit with, and even with some random add-ins our winning streak is often very high. Why? Because everyone can work as a team, despite animation locks. One party even had Ifrit down in about 11 minutes I think. These kinds are things are called endgame for a reason, it's for you to practice and get better at. Latency issues aside, working with your group and watching when you unload that heavy combo can spell the difference between death and a win.

Sorry but overall it seems like your thread is more about wanting everything to be instant and quick. FFXIV is faster paced game than XI, that's true without a doubt. Yet it also requires a bit more thought than "Mash 1 to win" than it did in its early days. I hope they continue this tradition. Battle doesn't feel too slow to me when you've got plenty of stuff to do in it. Oddly enough I'm even starting to enjoy Gladiator now and I hate the job.

[Drazzan]

More illiteracy: So let me get this straight, because I suggested that animations be sped up that automatically means "ridiculous speeds" right? Because it's hard for you to think in between two extremes? Because you can't imagine anything in between animation lock and "ridiculous speeds"? Did I get you right?

For one, please don't make this a personal assault on me. I did not insult you so please don't attack me. I don't post often on these forums for this exact reason. But I feel that I need to post in order for you to realise that you also didn't read my post.
You posted a video showcasing the animation buff-speed in your original post, this buff-speed was entirely fast, and currently buffs in Final Fantasy XIV are also fast, disregarding the cast-timer. The reason a cast-timer exists is purely because it adds a sense of depth to the combat, like it or not, while you're casting a buff, you cannot cure without interrupting yourself first. It adds a layer of strategy to the basic act of using abilities.

I'd really appreciate it if you could equip some reading comprehension gear the next time you join the discussion. Wouldn't it be nice if we were discussing the same thing in this thread? Imagine that.

You seem to love talking big, and claim that I need some reading comprehension the next time I "join your discussion" but you seemed to miss out this piece in my post.

The animation lock is the only issue present

Yet you claim I'm the one that needs to read posts? Animation Lock needs to be removed, it's a pain, but this isn't relative to the "speed" of animations, and the combat system doesn't need to become a case of fast used abilities and succession hot-key chaining.

And also, because I posted a video of a "particle effect" that automatically meant you had to say you don't think particle effects suit FFXIV right? Because it was impossible for you to look at that video and read what I was saying and NOT come away with the impression that we were discussing particle effects? The fact that we were discussing the separation of spell effects from animations didn't even enter into the equation when you decided to post, am I wrong?

As I claimed above, Animation Lock is an issue, but it only becomes an issue when coupled with server lag and instances where it’s integral that you move i.e. Ifrit. In basic combat situations or walking around on my own, I really am NOT bothered by animation lock as it’s not cumbersome in that situation.

To claim that I said I don’t think particle effects suit FFXIV, would be saying that I don’t like the game in its current state. Particle Effects are already present in Final Fantasy XIV, if you would just look up what a particle effect is you would realise this. Final Fantasy XIV is fantasy based, that can’t be denied, but it maintains a sense of realism. Is it so wrong that I felt I would highlight the point that I don’t want character’s covered in pretty effects like that? No. I know it’s not relative to the discussion, but I thought I would “inb4” so to speak. When people think of WoW animations they think over pretty colours and over-the-top particle effects.

On another note, while Dark Souls does have weighted animations it also doesn't animation lock you like FFXIV does. Dark Souls is also much better thought out as a combat system than FFXIV. FFXIV tries to draw from both the fast-action pool and the animation-lock pool, and the two don't mix well. In my opinion the slow, weighted animations only really work when you have a hitbox and an action battle system, not an auto attack, target-based system like FFXIV's. If you want to discuss something, why don't we discuss that?

Finally, I would like to point out that many spells in Dark Souls, as well as pyromancy abilities and arrows do give the character animation lock. This is relative to the combat system, obviously, it adds another sense of strategy to using abilities. With Final Fantasy XIV having a combat system that is based on positioning and moving, perhaps it’s only right that they have animation lock. However the present server lag is what gets us hit, not the animation lock itself. Once the server lag is fixed, this would no longer be an issue, it would be a case of being skilled enough to move out of the way.

Next time you post, please think more before you write. Do not launch a personal attack on me just because you disagree or feel the need to argue my points, go ahead and do that, but tone down on your attitude.

Much Thanks.

[DeadRiser]

I like the pace of combat in this game. Animation lock isn't that bad and it's being addressed in 2.0 which had been said numeruos times.

A bunch of the battle animations being sped up would look dumb in my opinion. Leave them how they are and plan ahead like you've been doing for the past 2 years. On top of that, I do like some of our lengthier animations. You get a feel for how powerful they are, like whirlwind from marauder/warrior.

Like a couple of others have said, this is a matter of taste.