Most ambitious summoning?

[Anonymoose]

The fact that people can still say

Zenos really is the most extra guy there is

after he spent an entire expansion standing next to Amon-Fandaniel for comparison really speaks to the veracity of the statement.

[Cleretic]

The fact that people can still say


after he spent an entire expansion standing next to Amon-Fandaniel for comparison really speaks to the veracity of the statement.

I think there's a core difference between Amon and Zenos in extra-ness, and it comes from the actual definition of the word: extra means more than necessary.

The thing about Amon's plan is that there was no smaller way he could've achieved it. He's trying to go down in a big ball of spite and rage against the world, in large part because as an Ascian it's physically impossible for him to go peacefully and quietly. Did he go above and beyond even then? Yes, absolutely, but dressing as a butler for an unnecessary dinner doesn't count for much when one of your smallest functional plan components is 'enslaving an imperial capital'.

Zenos is more extra because when he's going big, it's basically for no reason. He didn't possess Shinryu at Ala Mhigo because it was necessary, he just wanted to fight; he could've done that himself, but he went big because he could. He didn't angle for possessing Zodiark because it was necessary, he went for it because it was there. Very few characters get more extra than Zenos, because Zenos loves himself some overkill.

...which weirdly means I actually can't consider him as the most ambitious primal summon, because an ambitious plan is one with such high aspirations that it becomes difficult to achieve. And while yeah, Zenos has had ambitious plans before (mostly the whole Zodiark thing), the time he summoned a primal? It was, again, just a very simple requirement that he decided to do in the most over-the-top and elaborate way possible. I feel like the most ambitious primal summoning has to be one that was aiming beyond what anyone could ever have expected, rather than someone who just decided to go big for fun.

[Vyrerus]

I feel like the most ambitious primal summoning has to be one that was aiming beyond what anyone could ever have expected, rather than someone who just decided to go big for fun.

That's just it, though. Most everyone who ever summons a primal does it usually as part of a collective for a grand purpose such as defending their entire people or putting an entire people down. These most basic of precepts are even present in the eldest two primals, Zodiark (defend people) and Hydaelyn (destroy people).

Then there's Zenos. Summoning Shinryu with leftovers(why were there leftovers anyway, didn't they say that it took all of the mothercrystal just for the Ragnarok in the first place?). Using one, single primal to travel that same distance as all other primals summoned for the Ragnarok. Then continuing to use said primal as a keystone in the WoL combating Meteion.

Ambition's definition as a verb is: "To seek after earnestly; aspire to." And Zenos did that more than anyone, even serving to highlight the earnest pursuit of simple pleasure as a bulwark against all encompassing despair.

And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.

Edit: (Although it is sort of fun to think about how similar Zenos's purpose for summoning Shinryu was to Gilgamesh's accidental summoning of Enkidu. Ultimately, the ambition of both was to be with their friend.)

[Carin-Eri]

That's just it, though. Most everyone who ever summons a primal does it usually as part of a collective for a grand purpose such as defending their entire people or putting an entire people down. These most basic of precepts are even present in the eldest two primals, Zodiark (defend people) and Hydaelyn (destroy people).

Then there's Zenos. Summoning Shinryu with leftovers(why were there leftovers anyway, didn't they say that it took all of the mothercrystal just for the Ragnarok in the first place?). Using one, single primal to travel that same distance as all other primals summoned for the Ragnarok. Then continuing to use said primal as a keystone in the WoL combating Meteion.

Ambition's definition as a verb is: "To seek after earnestly; aspire to." And Zenos did that more than anyone, even serving to highlight the earnest pursuit of simple pleasure as a bulwark against all encompassing despair.

And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.

Edit: (Although it is sort of fun to think about how similar Zenos's purpose for summoning Shinryu was to Gilgamesh's accidental summoning of Enkidu. Ultimately, the ambition of both was to be with their friend.)

One has to acknowledge how he went about the whole thing too. He marched up to probably the largest gathering of the nations in one place claiming to be an associate of the Scions. Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever that he had absolutely no interest in trying to win a popularity contest, its probably fair to say that everyone present in Old Sharlayan at that moment either feared or hated him (or both), and he almost definitely would've known that.

Yet he managed to convince a group of people who'd likely sooner he'd remained dead to help him get what he wanted.

[Cleretic]

And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.

I mean, success is also not part of ambition. If it was, our list of contenders for 'most ambitious summoning' would be way shorter! (I think it's like... Ilberd's Shinryu, Zodiark and Hydaelyn, Anima, maybe that first historical Titan summoning; I had Tsukuyomi on this list but I'm not sure I'd call it a success).

If anything I feel like Zenos' Shinryu should be on a different list of least inspired/ambitious/considered primals; he didn't turn up to Sharlayan planning to summon a primal, he didn't have a plan at all and just happened to have a fitting trick when he heard the situation. Given both the aether and strong ideals required for summoning a primal, it's rather exceptional when someone can crack out a summon basically on a whim or by mistake. Ambition isn't exactly a requirement of primal summoning, but it's rare it's not part of the recipe, so those rarities are exceptional.

Using ifrit to keep a volcano from exploding, was the very first primal ever made.

Ifrita was not a primal, she was just a concept swiped from the libraries. Primals are an alternative, cranked-up and less regimented (and later, intentionally corrupted) form of creation magic, they are not the same thing.

The first thing we know of that's actually called a primal was Zodiark. However, there may have been others before him; I'm personally of the theory that Quetzacoatl from Akadaemia Anyder was a primal, but it was a pretty wimpy and unambitious one as far as the category takes us.