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  1. #1
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Interdimensional Rift
    Posts
    3,606
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    I feel like the most ambitious primal summoning has to be one that was aiming beyond what anyone could ever have expected, rather than someone who just decided to go big for fun.
    That's just it, though. Most everyone who ever summons a primal does it usually as part of a collective for a grand purpose such as defending their entire people or putting an entire people down. These most basic of precepts are even present in the eldest two primals, Zodiark (defend people) and Hydaelyn (destroy people).

    Then there's Zenos. Summoning Shinryu with leftovers(why were there leftovers anyway, didn't they say that it took all of the mothercrystal just for the Ragnarok in the first place?). Using one, single primal to travel that same distance as all other primals summoned for the Ragnarok. Then continuing to use said primal as a keystone in the WoL combating Meteion.

    Ambition's definition as a verb is: "To seek after earnestly; aspire to." And Zenos did that more than anyone, even serving to highlight the earnest pursuit of simple pleasure as a bulwark against all encompassing despair.

    And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.

    Edit: (Although it is sort of fun to think about how similar Zenos's purpose for summoning Shinryu was to Gilgamesh's accidental summoning of Enkidu. Ultimately, the ambition of both was to be with their friend.)
    (5)
    Last edited by Vyrerus; 03-10-2023 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Pointless tangent addition

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  2. #2
    Player
    Carin-Eri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    Old Sharlayan
    Posts
    2,129
    Character
    Carin Eri
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    That's just it, though. Most everyone who ever summons a primal does it usually as part of a collective for a grand purpose such as defending their entire people or putting an entire people down. These most basic of precepts are even present in the eldest two primals, Zodiark (defend people) and Hydaelyn (destroy people).

    Then there's Zenos. Summoning Shinryu with leftovers(why were there leftovers anyway, didn't they say that it took all of the mothercrystal just for the Ragnarok in the first place?). Using one, single primal to travel that same distance as all other primals summoned for the Ragnarok. Then continuing to use said primal as a keystone in the WoL combating Meteion.

    Ambition's definition as a verb is: "To seek after earnestly; aspire to." And Zenos did that more than anyone, even serving to highlight the earnest pursuit of simple pleasure as a bulwark against all encompassing despair.

    And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.

    Edit: (Although it is sort of fun to think about how similar Zenos's purpose for summoning Shinryu was to Gilgamesh's accidental summoning of Enkidu. Ultimately, the ambition of both was to be with their friend.)
    One has to acknowledge how he went about the whole thing too. He marched up to probably the largest gathering of the nations in one place claiming to be an associate of the Scions. Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever that he had absolutely no interest in trying to win a popularity contest, its probably fair to say that everyone present in Old Sharlayan at that moment either feared or hated him (or both), and he almost definitely would've known that.

    Yet he managed to convince a group of people who'd likely sooner he'd remained dead to help him get what he wanted.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
    Posts
    3,172
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    And he succeeds in his ambition. The goal may be small, but there is literally no one else in the story who has a smaller goal when it comes to using/summoning a primal. And there are precious few primals that actually succeed their summoner's ambition. And fewer still done with audacity.
    I mean, success is also not part of ambition. If it was, our list of contenders for 'most ambitious summoning' would be way shorter! (I think it's like... Ilberd's Shinryu, Zodiark and Hydaelyn, Anima, maybe that first historical Titan summoning; I had Tsukuyomi on this list but I'm not sure I'd call it a success).

    If anything I feel like Zenos' Shinryu should be on a different list of least inspired/ambitious/considered primals; he didn't turn up to Sharlayan planning to summon a primal, he didn't have a plan at all and just happened to have a fitting trick when he heard the situation. Given both the aether and strong ideals required for summoning a primal, it's rather exceptional when someone can crack out a summon basically on a whim or by mistake. Ambition isn't exactly a requirement of primal summoning, but it's rare it's not part of the recipe, so those rarities are exceptional.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICountFrom0 View Post
    Using ifrit to keep a volcano from exploding, was the very first primal ever made.
    Ifrita was not a primal, she was just a concept swiped from the libraries. Primals are an alternative, cranked-up and less regimented (and later, intentionally corrupted) form of creation magic, they are not the same thing.

    The first thing we know of that's actually called a primal was Zodiark. However, there may have been others before him; I'm personally of the theory that Quetzacoatl from Akadaemia Anyder was a primal, but it was a pretty wimpy and unambitious one as far as the category takes us.
    (3)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 03-10-2023 at 09:33 AM.