I have a question for the "community".

[Soge01]

Where were you many years ago when each and every of those contents got flak to hell and back?

I was there, playing the content on both. Grant it, I didn't get into Eureka and actually bitched about it on here with everyone else until three weeks after its release. Guess what I ironically enjoyed the most from Eureka. Times up, it was running through Eureka Pagos, the area everyone and their mother wouldn't stop crying about! That area felt ALIVE and I loved every second of it. The only thing I hated was calibrating my freaking relic weapon's stats. I'm not a math person and I really didn't want to screw up my relic's stats. xD

As for Bozja, I got into right away and it was my favourite relic run out of all the previous iterations. Got most of my relics finished except Warrior, Red Mage, White Mage, Black Mage and Astrologian. Warrior, because I was relic grinding all the way up till Endwalker's release and the rest because at the time I had yet to unlock them. I plan on going back to that content to at some point to complete ny Warrior weapon since I saw yesterday on my Party Finder that people were gathering for one of Bozja dungeon raid runs for relic progression. And of course, I gotta do yhe same later for Red Mage once I get it to at least lvl 80 and Astrologian once I unlock it and do the same. :3

[Raven2014]

If it's our fault that they only listen to negative feedback, and don't actually provide full polls for their content, then I think that's a problem with Square Enix and CBU:III.

It shouldn't be my fault that I don't constantly tell them what they do correct. They'd need to have better ways to pull engagement and happiness. It's 2023, media companies know how to pull that information from their base by now. If Square doesn't, then that's a huge problem.

And this exactly what cause the problem. This is like hearing young people saying "I don't need to vote, any decent politician should know what is the right thing to do!". Well, they should ... in an ideal world. Are we living in an ideal world though? No, we're living in a real world where you can not assume and simply entitle to the "right" thing without some extra effort put in to it. And yes, emphasize the word "extra", meaning you should put in those effort even if you think you shouldn't have to. Assuming other will somehow know what you want without you having to tell them what you want is a sure fine way to NOT getting what you want at the end, which is the point of this thread.

And before you think I'm taking a shot at you, know that just like I mentioned at the end of the OP: every accusations I may level in this thread is also one I level at myself

Edit: I really wish they would just have actual polls on the forum, AND send everyone content polls. They need to be way more engaged with their community. :/

I don't see how this is relevant. Regardless of you think it's sufficient or not, both side have access to the same tools no matter how limited that is. The negative simple spend a lot more effort in making sure their voices are heard when the positive often just take it for granted. Assuming that trend continue, creating more tool will NOT balance out the scale, it will just make the result even more lopsided.

[Kosachi]

Where were you many years ago when each and every of those contents got flak to hell and back?

Playing it. I liked Eureka a great deal more than Bozja, (even though I understand the appeal of it as well).

I basically lived in Eureka when it was current content. Made loads of friends that I still talk to to this day in Anemos and Pyros and I can confidently say that that was the most I ever had in this game. The social aspect is what a lot of these comments seem to be throwing completely out the window.

[RitsukoSonoda]

In the past there was stuff to do and the ppl that enjoyed actually playing the game were playing the game while the ppl that wanted stuff without playing the game sat on here complaining. So SE changed things to appease the ppl that didn't want to play the game and now the ppl that were playing the game in the past are on here complaining over the lack of engaging content.

[ReynTime]

"People complained about..."

It's almost like different players will have different opinions on what makes good Relic content or something. Crazy! In their obsession with not wanting anyone to feel "left out" of rewards (that they don't need) they completely ignored the fact the people who enjoyed Bozja and Eureka were quietly just enjoying them, not to mention finish them long ago.
Relic weapons aren't even BiS until the second to last patch, there is no reason to be so afraid of people who whine they have to 'grind' for it. Why not tone down savage difficulty drastically so people can get the rewards early too?

If they stopped trying to bend down to players who feel entitled to every reward but refuse to put the time or effort into it, the PvE content of the game would be way more interesting.

[Raven2014]

In the past there was stuff to do and the ppl that enjoyed actually playing the game were playing the game while the ppl that wanted stuff without playing the game sat on here complaining. So SE changed things to appease the ppl that didn't want to play the game and now the ppl that were playing the game in the past are on here complaining over the lack of engaging content.

And I think this is what keep up that vicious cycle of negative feedback.

- Got you what you want? Don't say anything.
- The people who don't share the same taste drum it up, making it looks like nobody want what you want.
- You stop getting what you want, now you become the next inline who does the drumming.

Honestly, I do enjoy the game enough that I stick around. However, if I am unhappy with a feature, I am very vocal about it, because being quiet does nothing. I am also quick to point out that when something does come up and a lot of people hate it, it is often because the player base asked for it, for better or worse depending on one's point of view

...

That being said, my grievances toward the game pale in comparison to how I feel some of the community handles negative feedback. It usually starts when a few people are trying to quiet the "dissenters" by telling them to shut up and be grateful, but that does nothing but get them more riled up, and then people are like "SEE? THEY REALLY ARE ANGRY FOR NO REASON!"

Regardless of whether I agree with your assessment or not it's not the point of this thread. In case it's not already abundant clear:

- This is not a thread about complainers. I'm not telling complainers to stop complaining here, god know I did that enough in other thread already. While it's unavoidable to bring up complainers as a reference and comparison on the topic, I'm actually not addressing them, at all.

- The group I'm addressing here are the people who actually have, or had something they like.


If you have something you like and enjoy, then consider spend some effort sending some positive note. Let them know you enjoy it, that you want to see more of it. That doesn't mean you can't give feedback to improve. Feedback is not something that is exclusively belong to complainers, you can be positive and critical at the same time, in fact that's just human management 101.

If you like something, don't just take it for granted and assume the dev will read your mind and continue delivering it. Well, you can, but if we believe we entitle to that, we can't act surprise or angry when one day such content just stop being delivered. After all, if you're the dev and the only voice or feedback you hear about a type content is almost exclusively people trash talking it, you probably will want to stop making that type of content too.

It's almost like different players will have different opinions on what makes good Relic content or something..

Sign, it's almost feel like a lot of people are just skimping the OP without the detail.

- Yes, people can enjoy the content.
- yes, people can complain about the content.

That is not the point here. The point here is one side spend a lot of effort in making their voice heard while the others stay in almost silence. The point here is because of that ...

If they stopped trying to bend down to players who feel entitled to every reward but refuse to put the time or effort into it, the PvE content of the game would be way more interesting.

ever wonder why? This like 2 guys liking the same girl, but:

- Guy A: actually spend the effort of courting the girl
- Guy B: would do nothing except telling himself "one day she'll realize how much I love her and notice me".

Which guy, A or B, that you think will more likely have a wedding at the end? And I'm definitely getting some "Guy B" vibe from some of the replies here.

[kaynide]

This is all a good case of “when you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody.”

Personally, relics are not for me and never have been…but I think they should have stuck to their original guns in that they would be BiS or equivalent to, but also hella Grindy. Basically long term things you can work on gradually over a month or so.

I appreciate SE trying new things, but I would rather they use any new story/zones as alternative leveling options… though I suppose it’s fine if the new zones work as alternative to dungeons/fates.

[Jojoya]

I feel like ... SE definitely listen to the community ... but the way we're doing it is purely from a "negative reinforcement" side, so it ends up in a corrupt-a-wish kind of game. People usually say "the people with issue gonna complain a lot, and those who enjoy the content just too busy enjoying the game to say anything". But ... isn't that part of the problem?

- If we truly enjoy a piece of content, should we be more vocal about sending a positive reinforcement? Like saying "hey we like this new content you put out and we like it a lot, we hope to see more of it and a better version of it". But ... this is almost completely absent.

- Instead, every time a new content come out, the feedback channel is always overwhelmed with negative sentiment picking it apart. It's usually only years later when you see people say "oh I actually enjoyed it back then", which I think ... a bit too little too late.


So instead of trying to encourage the dev through positive, let them know the part they did well and should continue to grow, we leave them with this negative-loop that like I said eventually turn into a corrupt-a-wish game.

It's human nature to silently accept what meets expectations, talk briefly about what exceeds expectations, and complain long and loud about the things that don't meet expectations. The developers aren't unaware of that. It's why developers use a lot of different methods for gathering player feedback, including participation metrics.

The problem we run into is that different players are going to have different reactions. There are a lot of players in game perfectly happy that it was just another tomestone grind instead of some other grind. They have no real reason to visit the forums unless they have a super strong preference for this being the grind mechanism going forward.

For those who don't like the tomestone grind, what has part of the response been? Players should have been asked to run X dungeons/trial/raid instead. Nevermind that to get the tomestones they could be running those things to earn the tomestones. Because they were not told exactly how it must be done and were given the freedom to choose how they got the tomestones, it's suddenly unacceptable.

So SE can't win in that case. Someone is going to be left upset. But since players are still farming their tomestones and turning them in because they want those relics, SE might as well keep doing it this way because the players are still getting at least part of what they want even if it's not being expressed in the way they want it to be expressed.

But you are right, it would help if players would give more feedback on what they do like instead of only giving feedback on what they dislike. It would help even more if they would simply stop doing what they dislike. That sends a much clearer message of how they feel about the task set to them.

[Zarkovitch]

You know the forum is just a small margin of players right?

[Duskane]

You know the forum is just a small margin of players right?

the forum still are the main source of feedback the devs look at
might be a fraction of the player base but it still speaks for parts of the community