SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[Striker44]

What? I mean you are joking - But usually when the MMO turns into an AFK Chatroom and nobody runs content, it starts to die. That's the sign of a game that just has it's skeleton core players sticking around because their friends still login as if it's an AOL Chatroom.

WoW MSQ/Questing is objectively better at basically everything except for the actual writing. Which.. After Endwalker. I don't even know anymore.

A.) Your chatroom analogy seems very random given how it doesn't describe FFXIV. At all. Heck, I pick very specific raids to run because I enjoy them, and they still pop within a couple minutes. People are grouping up to do things all the time.

B.) The word "objectively" doesn't apply to anything we're talking about here, which is pure opinion. My opinion? WoW MSQ is absolutely terrible - "objectively" - and far, far, far, far, far worse than FFXIV. Heck, it's the enjoyment of the MSQ design and the story itself that made me leave WoW behind completely in Shadowlands and make FFXIV my main MMO. And the actual writing in EW? Right on par with ShB, both of which I found awesome and thoroughly enjoyable.

[R041]

A.) Your chatroom analogy seems very random given how it doesn't describe FFXIV. At all. Heck, I pick very specific raids to run because I enjoy them, and they still pop within a couple minutes. People are grouping up to do things all the time.

B.) The word "objectively" doesn't apply to anything we're talking about here, which is pure opinion. My opinion? WoW MSQ is absolutely terrible - "objectively" - and far, far, far, far, far worse than FFXIV. Heck, it's the enjoyment of the MSQ design and the story itself that made me leave WoW behind completely in Shadowlands and make FFXIV my main MMO. And the actual writing in EW? Right on par with ShB, both of which I found awesome and thoroughly enjoyable.

Nah, XIV is known as the Chatroom MMO with how content drip and housing works. The community prides itself in how unrepeatable the casual content is so they can sit around or play other games. It's basically the meme at this point.

As far as the WoW MSQ being objectively better - It's just because it has actual VA, diverse RPG paths, actual rewards, skippable areas, and better mechanics. Like I said, you can say the writing in XIV is better, but the actual MSQ pacing and engagement in WoW is just more fun as a game. That's coming from an FF vet, I just find WoW's casual MSQ more engaging. That and you can actually play it coop. So yes, it's objectively better.

Now if you took all of those same mechanics, VA, rewards, different paths, and you gave that to FFXIV - Then XIV's MSQ would be unbeatable in every aspect. I can watch the XIV story on Youtube, but I'm here to play a game.

[Poporito_Popoto]

Nah, XIV is known as the Chatroom MMO with how content drip and housing works. The community prides itself in how unrepeatable the casual content is so they can sit around or play other games. It's basically the meme at this point.

As far as the WoW MSQ being objectively better - It's just because it has actual VA, diverse RPG paths, actual rewards, skippable areas, and better mechanics. Like I said, you can say the writing in XIV is better, but the actual MSQ pacing and engagement in WoW is just more fun as a game. That's coming from an FF vet, I just find WoW's casual MSQ more engaging. That and you can actually play it coop. So yes, it's objectively better.

Now if you took all of those same mechanics, VA, rewards, different paths, and you gave that to FFXIV - Then XIV's MSQ would be unbeatable in every aspect. I can watch the XIV story on Youtube, but I'm here to play a game.

Funny, I have to watch Youtube to catch up on what happened in previous expansions I missed in WoW, since the game is designed only for the current expansion. One complaint in the past about the MSQ is that you have get some of the background outside of the game, i.e. books.

[CStrife912]

Funny, I have to watch Youtube to catch up on what happened in previous expansions I missed in WoW, since the game is designed only for the current expansion. One complaint in the past about the MSQ is that you have get some of the background outside of the game, i.e. books.

I don’t think there is any reasoning with some of these players because they’re heavily skewed to a head canon the game never catered to I feel. It’s like moaning only now about the direction of the game and its release patterns with patches where it’s been borderline the same since stormblood. Albeit less dungeons but if they stick to the current design they’d moan anyway that they’re too easy. I’ve played wow for a long time I’ve played ESO and GW2 for a while too I’ve even done a small stint into new world. They don’t handle story or questing as well as 14 does. Also if you want to go one step further go play wrath classic and see all the non voiced barely written quests which are just as mundane. Not saying 14 can’t improve on what they have but to say they’re worse is a gross exaggeration.

It’s like me playing battlefield for years then going to cod, they are both different to each other and share similarities and cod felt fresh until you hit the same problems you had with it before when you left to battlefield. I like how they think new leadership will fix a problem when it would take years to see a change which might not even be for the better. Plus how it affects the team they could loose so much staff who are loyal to his leadership. I would love to see a resource allocation breakdown to give some people more perspective on things honestly.

[R041]

Funny, I have to watch Youtube to catch up on what happened in previous expansions I missed in WoW, since the game is designed only for the current expansion. One complaint in the past about the MSQ is that you have get some of the background outside of the game, i.e. books.

That's fine - The difference is if I were to watch an XIV youtube series, it'd make 0 difference with my gameplay engagement. I'm almost encouraged to watch it on Youtube with the ability to rewind and fast forward through garbage. Where WoW allows me the ability to coop, find secrets with rewards, and skip areas for later, or skip them entirely because I didn't like that side-story.

Also they just have a ton of great video shorts, so hell yeah I'm gonna watch those: https://youtu.be/hndyTy3uiZM

I don’t think there is any reasoning with some of these players because they’re heavily skewed to a head canon the game never catered to I feel. It’s like moaning only now about the direction of the game and its release patterns with patches where it’s been borderline the same since stormblood.

You actually believe XIV questing is even remotely comparable to WoW? Are you out of your mind? Have you played WoW within the last 6 years? WoW is in a completely different universe with how advanced the systems are compared to XIV. It even has dynamic world instances because some quests actually change the landscape and NPC interaction. It just has far better tools for engaging storytelling.

Some of us never actually enjoyed the way XIV has forced and designed MSQ. We assumed that maybe after 10 years they'd at least put a little more effort into the engagement and ways the MSQ is told. But nope, it's been the same boring slog.

They've upgraded boss mechanics, downgraded dungeons, added fun exploratory systems, washed the classes, and kept the MSQ just as shit as ever.

A lot of us are waiting to see what they're going to do for 7.0. It's the tipping point in whether those players keep their sub. I log in less and less every day.

If WoW releases housing, and gets rid of the stupid swirly mechanics, then have mercy on XIV.

[Raoabolic]

You actually believe XIV questing is even remotely comparable to WoW? Are you out of your mind? Have you played WoW within the last 6 years? WoW is in a completely different universe with how advanced the systems are compared to XIV. It even has dynamic world instances because some quests actually change the landscape and NPC interaction.

I would love if the a relic questline had something crazy attached to it like the dungeon attunement system like WoW had during BC. I love a good grind that rewards you with something crazy like raid access!

[CStrife912]

.....

So there is a few things to unpack here, WoW lore is fantastic wouldn't say better as its purely subjective but the storytelling is really bad. Want to know everything that happens, watch the web shorts, read the books and see obscure lore located in the world...its not good at least FF14 everything is IN the game (which I will admit it can waffle) I played properly until the end of legion because BFA and Shadowlands just didn't interest me, because I have a passing interest in WoW I still kept up with it and they mishandled and ruined so much stuff that it is way too much for me to type. But you can't compare one game for all its aspects without comparing it to all of another...so from WoD and some of the legion all the way back WoW had some barebones by numbers side quests that were borderline pointless. Im not saying 14s side quests are any better in the grand scheme of things but at least there is some flavor to them writing-wise (even if they waffle at times) You are also comparing a game that is 10 years old to a game that is borderline 19 years old....so if we took them at the same time for how long they'd be out 14 is way ahead of what wow was at that point.

So the thing is, its fine to skip the story and engage with just the battle content etc but to say the MSQ is as shit as ever....through what are critically and publicly stated as some really good to great storytelling then I think it is a writing style or pay off you will never like and that is fine. Even though endwalker is a sticking point for some it seems to be generally more positively received for me if it were standalone I would say it was a rather weak point but I treat it and how it should be treated is a companion piece to shadowbringers (like infinity war to endgame basically) and that makes it a lot better in my eyes still flawed in areas but still great in others.

I wouldn't say dungeons are downgraded they've been the same since heavensward, they just need to better scale ilvl sync to make things hit harder.

If wow hasn't released housing in 19 years and hasn't made any intention to it wont happen and even if it does....there wont be a mass exodus from 14 because 14 was doing its own thing for years while WoW remained on top and technically never changed...yet we are here now where WoW is on the back foot and 14 is in a good place. But hey if they all leave then sure...it won't make that much of a difference in the short term. Long term who knows? I think you are clearly passionate for what you like and that is great but sadly you or I are but a small drip in the ocean that is the player base, I want aspects to improve but mostly it can be achievable with little change to their direction. They number crunched before...changing their algorithm on ilvl sync scaling could be doable to bring in difficulty across the board.

[Lium]

That's fine - The difference is if I were to watch an XIV youtube series, it'd make 0 difference with my gameplay engagement. I'm almost encouraged to watch it on Youtube with the ability to rewind and fast forward through garbage. Where WoW allows me the ability to coop, find secrets with rewards, and skip areas for later, or skip them entirely because I didn't like that side-story.

Also they just have a ton of great video shorts, so hell yeah I'm gonna watch those: https://youtu.be/hndyTy3uiZM



You actually believe XIV questing is even remotely comparable to WoW? Are you out of your mind? Have you played WoW within the last 6 years? WoW is in a completely different universe with how advanced the systems are compared to XIV. It even has dynamic world instances because some quests actually change the landscape and NPC interaction. It just has far better tools for engaging storytelling.

Some of us never actually enjoyed the way XIV has forced and designed MSQ. We assumed that maybe after 10 years they'd at least put a little more effort into the engagement and ways the MSQ is told. But nope, it's been the same boring slog.

They've upgraded boss mechanics, downgraded dungeons, added fun exploratory systems, washed the classes, and kept the MSQ just as shit as ever.

A lot of us are waiting to see what they're going to do for 7.0. It's the tipping point in whether those players keep their sub. I log in less and less every day.

If WoW releases housing, and gets rid of the stupid swirly mechanics, then have mercy on XIV.

Almost everyone on the WoW forums disagrees with you. In fact, they spend most of their time praising this game while dissing their own game when it comes to the story and the writing.

Your opinion is just that. Your opinion. It is not objective. It is subjective. Just like everyone else's.

[Vahlnir]

Almost everyone on the WoW forums disagrees with you. In fact, they spend most of their time praising this game will dissing their own game when it comes to the story and the writing.

Your opinion is just that. Your opinion. It is not objective. It is subjective. Just like everyone else's.

That is because WoW has had genuinely poor writing and game design for 2 expansions in a row. The most recent expansion, Dragonflight, was more of a reset of sorts, so time will tell what happens from here. At the end of the day, the WoW forums aren't much different from ours. When a good point is made, it's a really good point, and when something is universally hated, the players come together and put on quite a show of solidarity. But sometimes they complain just to complain, too. I was seeing a ton of praise for FF XIV and other MMOs prior to Dragonflight, but I haven't seen it much after it launched. A lot of people have dug their trenches again to defend literally everything WoW, for better or worse.

[DPZ2]

That is because WoW has had genuinely poor writing and game design for 2 expansions in a row.

I actually think that WoW's writing is top-notch when it comes as a book, rather than something in game. The poor writing in-game is primarily due to the lack of enthusiasm for story when the primary goal of players is to reach end-game quickly to participate in end-game battle content. That, and the writers have believed that the books between expansions are a suitable replacement for in-story content. Every single expansion that I played, at least, and we're talking BC to BFA ...