Fighting Desperately...

[Crysten]

You really think so? Perhaps you weren't the person with multiple Linkshells, 165 people on their Friend List, a working knowledge of the party search function, no reservations about shouting for an hour on the streets of Ul'dah for some party members to go out and grind with. For 3 days I did this, all in vain, and for the simple fact that everyone, I kid you not, everyone that could have otherwise went with me was either in Mun-Tuy or Nanawa, sitting AFK/asleep while a Lv50 THM or CON played their game for them.

So you tell me where the choice is in that?

You're parading your own experience as "the" experience. I don't remember having any trouble getting to 50 through a mix of parties (when they were still sparse on Mysidia) and solo grinding through leves. I even got a few PL parties to level my subs up. I think that's plenty of choice from my end and the majority of that choice came from my current linkshell or my RL friends.

If you had several linkshells and 150 people on your friends list and couldn't find a bloody party, I'd look a little closer to home for the core problem to the particular situation you found yourself in...

You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

You do know the entire design philosophy of MMOs is to keep people playing for as long as possible, right? You know, for example, Skinner Box techniques? Why on Earth would any sane MMO developer make an instantly gratifying experience when the entire point is to design content that can be completed slower than it can be developed?

WoW's flaws or positives aside, it changed the market trend into something that has widespread appeal. The age of most MMO gamers is increasing as time goes on and these people just don't have the time to dedicate to a hardcore MMO anymore. I've done all the crap in XI; I have an Aegis. I levelled three of my jobs pre-Aht Urhgan the "old school" way in Bibiki Bay. I've lived in the Aery for days.

And you know what, you can go piss right off if you want to feed me any of that garbage again. I'm perfectly happy in an environment where I can spend an hour or two in game and feel like I've accomplished something. That's the future of the genre, and if you don't like it, the door is right there and there's a bus to XI or EQ waiting right outside.

Fact of the matter is, those who say mid-game play should take a backseat to end-game play are only out there for the thrill of victory over others and apparently care little about the journey and adventure it takes to get there. They make games such as Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for these kind of people. They don't belong in RPG's at all in the first place.

I really don't understand the connection between "end-game" and "the thrill of victory" and I'd actually like you to elaborate here. There's no competition in this game (and XI did the worst job of creating competition in the form of HNM, but that's another story) and there is mid-game content for those who wish to persue it. Once again, who are you to say what content a player may or may not enjoy/partake in? If I don't want to do Toto-rak or Chocobo escorts, that's not even your problem.

Exactly this sentiment that I believe is going to become a reality that resulted in my OP. Specifically, the first paragraph. Anyone who has any appreciation for anything in life knows that the journey is not just a means to an end. It is the defining characteristic of those ends.

Yet you're heavily implying that anyone who takes the journey a certain way deserves a certain kind of belittlement compared to someone who doesn't.

[Wirritosama]

I got my monk and war to 50 before merger from party invites. I would see a shout or would try and make my own, sometimes it didn't work so I would do leves or storyline etc. I took a long break and came back around 1.21 patch and I see major improvements from when I started at launch. Some friends would text me and bitch about how no one was making pt so he couldn't level etc. after trying two days he said he got an invite from Japanese players and it took him like 2 to 3 days after that to get to 50 doing exp PT. since then he got his 3rd job to 50 and is heavily active. He got PL one time from 17 to level 30 then started to pt again. Shit happens life isn't easy and games shouldn't be either... What do we pay right now 8$ a month? Seriously... Yes the game isn't 100% and if people are poor and can't afford it ok quit. At the same time if you have a pc to run this game as is right now 13$ a month should be pocket change.

[Xoo]

You're parading your own experience as "the" experience. I don't remember having any trouble getting to 50 through a mix of parties (when they were still sparse on Mysidia) and solo grinding through leves. I even got a few PL parties to level my subs up. I think that's plenty of choice from my end and the majority of that choice came from my current linkshell or my RL friends.

If you had several linkshells and 150 people on your friends list and couldn't find a bloody party, I'd look a little closer to home for the core problem to the particular situation you found yourself in...

You do know the entire design philosophy of MMOs is to keep people playing for as long as possible, right? You know, for example, Skinner Box techniques? Why on Earth would any sane MMO developer make an instantly gratifying experience when the entire point is to design content that can be completed slower than it can be developed?

WoW's flaws or positives aside, it changed the market trend into something that has widespread appeal. The age of most MMO gamers is increasing as time goes on and these people just don't have the time to dedicate to a hardcore MMO anymore. I've done all the crap in XI; I have an Aegis. I levelled three of my jobs pre-Aht Urhgan the "old school" way in Bibiki Bay. I've lived in the Aery for days.

And you know what, you can go piss right off if you want to feed me any of that garbage again. I'm perfectly happy in an environment where I can spend an hour or two in game and feel like I've accomplished something. That's the future of the genre, and if you don't like it, the door is right there and there's a bus to XI or EQ waiting right outside.

I really don't understand the connection between "end-game" and "the thrill of victory" and I'd actually like you to elaborate here. There's no competition in this game (and XI did the worst job of creating competition in the form of HNM, but that's another story) and there is mid-game content for those who wish to persue it. Once again, who are you to say what content a player may or may not enjoy/partake in? If I don't want to do Toto-rak or Chocobo escorts, that's not even your problem.

Yet you're heavily implying that anyone who takes the journey a certain way deserves a certain kind of belittlement compared to someone who doesn't.

I am not. I am speaking for those who have shared the same frustrating experience I have. Are you not guilty of exactly the same? - professing your experience as an all-encompassing gospel?

What are you getting at, exactly? Stop being cryptic.

And do you realize how much the promotion, proficiency and abuse of Powerleveling totally negates this design philosophy? As well, the sheer magnitude of EXP that stoods to be gained in the Strongholds at Lv40-50?

Widespread appeal = more money, period. The fact that people that once played XI have grown is a moot point. Generations follow one another.

Nobody fed it to you. You fed yourself.

If the only thing people care about is killing NM's, running Dungeons and uber loot, then let's just start the game at Lv50. Screw the rest.

[Jinko]

In my opinion, I can't help but believe that SE just sold out to make a better profit. Of course, this is fine if you actually need the revenue, but I really don't think that's the case here. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.

It's just an overwhelming feeling of betrayal.

Dear god, they are a business they always need the revenue.

It's not betrayal lol, SE never cared about you to begin with, you are 1 person.

[Lux_Rayna]

aaaa

Dear god, they are a business they always need the revenue.

It's not betrayal lol, SE never cared about you to begin with, you are 1 person.

This is correct lol. Idk if you watch boxing Xoo, but there's a saying in boxing that goes "Never fall in love with a fighter." You can say the same for publishers or games. The end goal, after its all said and done, is to make more money. They have investors they need to make happy, and investors want to see as much profit as possible. Its never really been about the players, ever. The only ppl that care about the players, theoretically, are the GMs or game designers. But on the business side of things, no one gives a crap about the players. They just want purchases and subs.


And idk why ppl are attacking Xoo over his lackluster experience. It doesn't seem debatable to me...

[ArnoMorley]

I'm with Xoo, it is a betrayal, the funny thing is it's not working for them. They sold out for less money lol. They've been giving the old school fans the finger and trying for a new audience since the merger and FF has been selling less.

Dear god, they are a business they always need the revenue.

It's not betrayal lol, SE never cared about you to begin with, you are 1 person.

Well I think some publishers such as Bethesda care, I think the old square soft cared. Wada couldn't give less of a fuck though lol. SE's management is incredibly stupid though, they're shown time and time again that it's their old games that people want but they keep trying to feed us new mainstream crap.


@Crysten
Wow somebody's in a bad mood today, I speak the absolute truth though. Why do you think pop/rock music switch out in being the most popular? It's because they all copy each other and people get sick of it. The crappy boy bands from the 90s got on everybody's nerves so rock/metal music exploded in the early 2000s.

And that's just 1 example, there are countless types of media that companies have killed doing the same thing. SE should have stuck with what their fans wanted, and worried about new fans last.

[Wirritosama]

Dear god, they are a business they always need the revenue.

It's not betrayal lol, SE never cared about you to begin with, you are 1 person.

I bought this game and hate it and SE doesn't care...

None of them care mmo are created for MOnEY not to make you happy. They want sub to be happy to keep you playing longer for.... Take a guess... MONEY. Seriously people stop crying. If you don't like the game quit end of story, try again 2.0. Why do people post about quiting on forums? Need attention? Not getting it From family or friends? My god.

[Peptaru]

I levelled three of my jobs pre-Aht Urhgan the "old school" way in Bibiki Bay.

Just had this catch my eye and wanted to say Bibiki Bay is old-ER.... but it sure as hell isn't "old school" lol

[ArnoMorley]

I bought this game and hate it and SE doesn't care...

None of them care mmo are created for MOnEY not to make you happy. They want sub to be happy to keep you playing longer for.... Take a guess... MONEY. Seriously people stop crying. If you don't like the game quit end of story, try again 2.0. Why do people post about quiting on forums? Need attention? Not getting it From family or friends? My god.

Geez, somebody's a hypocrite lmao. You do realize that in the same post you're telling other people they're crying about shit that you're doing the same exact thing?

and inserting a photo tell me that's not a desperate attempt for attention? My only question, is that a photo of you?


People have the right to dislike a 5/10 rated game, hell they have to right to complain about a 10/10 game. Just because you don't share their point of view doesn't mean you have to troll their threads.

When a company screws up they need to hear about it, when you go white knighting bad business practices all you do is encourage them to cheat us some more. They should be profiting because they make a 10/10 game, not because of cheap marketing tactics surrounding a 5/10 game.

It's not like anything said hasn't been true, FFXI fans wanted an experience like XI delivered, and they sold by copying WoW. Fans have a right to be mad about it. Justice was served when XIV bombed.

[Wirritosama]

I love this game 13$ a month is nothing to me an I'm lucky to have had a great life thus far my friend. You guys can cry about 6$ a month and how you're going to quit but reply to all threads. Now excuse me while I take my beautiful Japanese wife to wrestle mania for the night. Lol, peace