Twitch streamers still blatantly cheating on stream.

[Melorie]

Ehh. If you're going to make any kind of efforts against cheating, I would rather they ban botting instead of people that ruin their very own fun and no one else, since that's a cheat that actually hurts the overall game economy and everyone involved. The rest... couldn't care less. Wanna mod your game to the point you ruin the fun of the fight so you can feel good with the sparkly weapon? Do it. Wanna waste $500 bucks to AFK in Limsa with your brought clear weapon? Ok. Wanna make your character look like a Kardashian with big ass lips and hips? Eh. Kinda bad taste if you ask me, but go on.

If that's the price that some people gotta pay in order for others to actually have hats, fingers and QoL tweaks... By all means.

[Absimiliard]

Well for what I’ve read 1 side is adamant it’s not cheating and it’s a grey area in the ToS. I disagree with that. The other side says it’s against the rules or it’s unfair to console user. I agree with that. My middle ground is I think there are things SE should add officially to the game like a parser as an example. My apologies if I haven’t seen the hyperbole on the anti mod side. It’s easier to ignore people who don’t stick out like a sore thumb. Are there any hyperbolic examples you can provide to raise my awareness in the future?

Just gonna reiterate once again that console players are in fact able to make use of third-party tools and modifications. Yes, including parsing.

As for hyperbole? I feel like the continuous conflation of something like ACT with some dude that can zoom his camera clear to the Dark Inside from Omega's boss room would qualify. The repeated calls for banning of users that even so much as utilize FFlogs certainly also qualifies.

That's automation. It allows you to have an automatic call tool and that is prohibited.

As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

[VelKallor]

Well for what I’ve read 1 side is adamant it’s not cheating and it’s a grey area in the ToS.

It is cheating and there is no grey area. TOS says no addons. Full stop.

[Melorie]

Okay, let me clarify: I have yet to see you call anyone on the anti-mod/anti-cheat side out for their hyperbolic/attacking/whatever posts, which they make *all the time*. Hence why I don't super believe you truly care about there not being an echo chamber.

These people simply want to feel some weird sense of justice out of a video-game. That's why they waste energy trying to police everyone and demanding bans for stuff that doesn't affect them nor anyone else. Think that things like posing, re-shade, discord (yep!), making your character make-up (a fun creative experience), or using logs in order to make your gameplay better is the same as trying to get a trophy for world first with something that breaks down the fight, in the content that is basically for people that want to push themselves is ridiculous. It's a hollow, empty argument of people that want to be punitive and not discuss the matter in a productive way.

They have zero idea how normal this type of stuff is in every other game and want to place everything in the same basket. It's a tedious, simplistic view of the whole situation. Keep parroting ToS this, ToS that without truly considering the extent of the situation. At some point it's funny to read.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

It's crazy how you anti-mod people do not understand that everyone using mods accepts that they could get banned. Instead, you come to the official forums and complain about people modding their game while not affecting you. Not to mention the sad creatures actively going into modding discords and reporting everyone they see screenshots from.

If you'd really care about the rules, you would not try to harass others into reporting anyone they think could be using mods. But you don't really, you only want to feel good and put your imagined justice above everyone else.

I don't think you actually read my post correctly. I didn't harass any mod user, but if a reminder to the rules of the game is being absolute anti-mod for you, you should probably read again what I said and what I didn't.

Also, I don't make "witch hunt" on who mod or who don't, I don't care. If you mod and you get banned that's your problem not mine.

Square Enix made rules for people to follow, if you want to break them, feel free to do so, but SE will be free to ban you if you broke those.

[TabrisOmbrelame]

As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

I'm sorry, my English is still laking sometimes so "Automation" seems to be kind of strong word where I used it ? Sorry for the misunderstand.

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

[Nyarlha]

I'm sorry, my English is still laking sometimes so "Automation" seems to be kind of strong word where I used it ? Sorry for the misunderstand.

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

Automation has always meant ONE specific thing in games : having a program automate actions in game. Cactbot doesn't control your character for you, it is not "automation". Bot programs fall under automation for instance.

[Kolaina]

As much as I despise Cactbot, having something warn you about upcoming mechanics isn't automation. Needing it means you're trash at the game, but it isn't automation - you still have to dodge the mechanic yourself. Automation would be using tools that play the game for you, essentially.

I still feel as though cactbot is pushing it as it’s pc only and eliminates human error.
But I agree with you on act and I advocate for it. I haven’t seen anyone conflate it with something else though

[Midareyukki]

Automation has always meant ONE specific thing in games : having a program automate actions in game. Cactbot doesn't control your character for you, it is not "automation". Bot programs fall under automation for instance.

This. Basically:

Cactbot does automate call-outs, but it's no different than having your raid leader tell you what's coming up or where to go. Some features are indeed personal, as they tell you where to go based on what marker you have, but those are specific mechanics. From what I've seen, it often just says "Hey, X mechanic is coming up. Do it." and you still need to kind of know what's going on and where to go. But it doesn't resolve the mechanic for you in its entirety, you still need to know how to do it.

Similarly, ACT automates the collection and organization of data into readable charts instantly. This is information you can get already by logging in your Battle chat, but that'd be way too tedious and you'd need a fair bit of automation on Excel as it is to even get through it.

True full automation to the point where it's considered full-on-can't-even-deny-this-is-cheating would be what bots do. Where they automate their movements with no input from you and seamlessly clear fights.

What I meant was Cactbot is doing "Automatic call". You don't even have to look at the "cast bar". And I will strongly agree on those terms you said : "Needing it means you're trash at the game".

Yes. You do still need to learn the fight, obviously, but having something be so accurate, so personal and telling you what the fight is doing does indeed mean you're not that great at the game.

But I don't think the people playing the game with Cactbot on care to be seen as good

Can you argue that they don't deserve the rewards? Yes. But, and honest question here, it's just stuff in a videogame. Do they really matter?

For me Cactbot allow you to turn off your brain in game. This will reduce the "challenge" enough to be called an unfair advantage against console player or people who don't use it.

Everything is an unfair advantage against console players Legacy Controls vs Standard Controls can even be seen as one in very, very niche cases, for example.

[LianaThorne]

This. Basically:

Cactbot does automate call-outs, but it's no different than having your raid leader tell you what's coming up or where to go. Some features are indeed personal, as they tell you where to go based on what marker you have, but those are specific mechanics. From what I've seen, it often just says "Hey, X mechanic is coming up. Do it." and you still need to kind of know what's going on and where to go. But it doesn't resolve the mechanic for you in its entirety, you still need to know how to do it.

Similarly, ACT automates the collection and organization of data into readable charts instantly. This is information you can get already by logging in your Battle chat, but that'd be way too tedious and you'd need a fair bit of automation on Excel as it is to even get through it.

True full automation to the point where it's considered full-on-can't-even-deny-this-is-cheating would be what bots do. Where they automate their movements with no input from you and seamlessly clear fights.



Yes. You do still need to learn the fight, obviously, but having something be so accurate, so personal and telling you what the fight is doing does indeed mean you're not that great at the game.

But I don't think the people playing the game with Cactbot on care to be seen as good

Can you argue that they don't deserve the rewards? Yes. But, and honest question here, it's just stuff in a videogame. Do they really matter?



Everything is an unfair advantage against console players Legacy Controls vs Standard Controls can even be seen as one in very, very niche cases, for example.

I disagree on a couple things relating to Cact. If we're going to be honest:

- I wouldn't necessarily call it the same as having a raid leader do callouts because of the speed at which Cact gives you information. I used to have a raid lead that switched to using Cact for callouts because it would tell him what to say/do faster than he would be able to without it.

- Needing to know mechs is debatable and really depends on what youre doing. Taking a fight like P1S for example, it tells you everything. You don't need to know any mechs outside of basic common sense for what the words: inside, outside, left, right, etc. mean. For the pizza slice section, it tells you which one is safe and where to stand. Again, information came from old raid lead of mine.