is anybody else tired of the way savage is structured?

[grinkdaboy]

i'm not talking about gear though there are some pretty notable grievances there but this is not the reason why i made this thread

i was pretty fatigued from fights with no checkpoints (e4 and e8) to where i have no real desire for future fights to be designed that way. it's okay to have in an ultimate but in savage it's just frustrating to wipe at the end of a 12-13 minute fight because somebody choked up

and now i'm feeling fatigue from doorbosses. maybe it's the way they designed this tier but it feels like they were blinded by the desire to prevent any mechanics whatsoever from being cheesed or otherwise done in a non-standard way. (this isn't the only example as i know there are other instances of this, but for example in e10s you could shield through and cheese the dog orb mechanic, in p1s you could sac one of the cubes, and in p2s a paladin or gunbreaker could invuln cheese a mech towards the end of the fight without taking a DD, since their invuln prevents them from taking any damage and having the dd applied.)

at this point i'd say it'd be worth considering just doing away with doorbosses in a different way, and that way is to just make a 5th floor

[Escence]

I will be open to a tier not having a door boss and instead making the final boss have more interesting mechanics to make up for it. I think it would be nice if a tier play out like a dungeon where we have to fight our way to the boss much like they did in with the turns in ARR instead just spawning us on the boss floor. Yeah it seem like with this current raid tier they don't like the fact that tanks can just invul certain mechanics with out no consequence and I feel they should make more interesting mechanics that are more fun and engaging where we don't have to feel like we have cheese as much.

[Jeeqbit]

I am not tired of the structure.

But I feel that P8S has less filler mechanics like many other last floors, and just puzzle after puzzle after puzzle, which makes the doorboss more draining.

I have thought about what SE is really trying to achieve with this and I agree that it’s like they want a 5th floor, but only in savage and in order to prevent adding a 5th in the normal version, they have to do this doorboss stuff. Maybe they should just make a 5th floor.

[Rolder50]

I will be open to a tier not having a door boss and instead making the final boss have more interesting mechanics to make up for it. I think it would be nice if a tier play out like a dungeon where we have to fight our way to the boss much like they did in with the turns in ARR instead just spawning us on the boss floor. Yeah it seem like with this current raid tier they don't like the fact that tanks can just invul certain mechanics with out no consequence and I feel they should make more interesting mechanics that are more fun and engaging where we don't have to feel like we have cheese as much.

I feel like they could make mechanics so much more interesting if they

1) Remove tank invulns period and

2) Limited the number of raises you get in a pull.

Those two things together let you cheese so much.

[Jeeqbit]

2) Limited the number of raises you get in a pull.

Those two things together let you cheese so much.

to be honest, it used to be kinda limited because unless a healer could find 7 seconds to cast, it was 2 rez per minute or 3 if you had a summoner, which was rare because people gravitated to easier jobs that fit their lore better.

Then red mage came in stormblood and everyone played it. There was always a rdm in your party and that transformed the game. It was no longer “if healers die it’s over”. You could just bring red mages as way to cheese a lot of things that PF wasn’t good at.

[DrWho2010]

let's just face it, the way P8S is designed is that it's less recoverable after someone screws up. in this fight if someone screws up it's mostly a wipe. very few spots where you can rez and continue the fight and hobble along to the end. i think that's where most groups are failing at, because they're used to being able to just get by, but not in this one.

[Iyrnthota]

let's just face it, the way P8S is designed is that it's less recoverable after someone screws up. in this fight if someone screws up it's mostly a wipe. very few spots where you can rez and continue the fight and hobble along to the end. i think that's where most groups are failing at, because they're used to being able to just get by, but not in this one.

I mean, that doesn't sound like a uniquely P8S thing. I recall plenty of wipes in P1S cause 1 person messed up Intemp or Chains.

[Zebraoracle]

I'll be honest, this tier has not been fun at all for me, and it's not because of the DoTs (that haven't been a threat since like week three). The fights just aren't fun to me.

[Jeeqbit]

I mean, that doesn't sound like a uniquely P8S thing. I recall plenty of wipes in P1S cause 1 person messed up Intemp or Chains.

The point is that is just those two mechanics. In P8S, every single mechanic is like chains or intemp. In P1S you could just rez lots while dodging elements and cleaves, or while going in and out. Even tanks could die a lot. Once gear made the dps check like nothing. P8S doesn’t have that sort of filler that allows rez and there are final floors previously that did have filler like that, so this is why it’s been harder on people.

[Liam_Harper]

They should definitely split it into 2 fights and just have 5 bosses at this point. Both p8s Part1 and 2 are almost full boss fights. A 5th fight would also fix some gear issues since both floor 4 and 5 would drop loot.

As for the tier itself, I enjoyed it but it wasn't amazing. P8s was a good fight. Carby however was probably one of my favorite first boss of the tier fights in a long time. Good aesthetics, good mechanics, good pacing, but nothing crazy that you needed to study guides for all week. P6 and 7 took a nosedive, especially p6, and were bland and boring fights mechanically with the best part of p7s being the arena.

However, I think what hurt Savage most for me this tier is job design. The tier really wasn't that bad compared to others and had some good points, but I've just had enough of the same dull rotations, 1-2-3 and 2 min bursts, spamming Glare for hours and doing a lot of the same things as ShB just simplified a bit more. Job design is in a dire state and it really hurts the enjoyment of combat content for me.