Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Burmecia]

Its because it was so random. You can see on the party list if a SAM has LB. You can anticipate it and watch for chiten and you can mark the SAM with a "do not attack" marker. MCH would just throw out chainsaw and you would randomly die. Its a completely different scenario.

But you dont want/need to keep a watch on everyone's LBs, especially in FL, right?

Looks like needless extra hassle there, which makes the game less fun an intuitive.

Just to avoid SAM's instakill.
PLD's cover bs wasn't at 3% randomness, and it earned it's short drop to trash can.

[Ransu]

But you dont want/need to keep a watch on everyone's LBs, especially in FL, right?

Part of the fun of pvp, especially in MMO's is paying attention to abilities and responding to what they have. So yes, I do want to keep an eye on those things.

If you're engaging a SAM as a melee, its not hard to look out for chiten. If you're ranged and throwing out AoE's... You shouldn't be in range of the SAM anyways.

Honestly it sounds like you just want to press buttons with your brain shut off which basically means you probably shouldn't play pvp in any game.

[Towa-Musa]

But you dont want/need to keep a watch on everyone's LBs, especially in FL, right?

Looks like needless extra hassle there, which makes the game less fun an intuitive.

Just to avoid SAM's instakill.
PLD's cover bs wasn't at 3% randomness, and it earned it's short drop to trash can.

Honestly a PLD that eats the instakill for a teamate is a hero imo

[True-to-Caesar]

Part of the fun of pvp, especially in MMO's is paying attention to abilities and responding to what they have. So yes, I do want to keep an eye on those things.

If you're engaging a SAM as a melee, its not hard to look out for chiten. If you're ranged and throwing out AoE's... You shouldn't be in range of the SAM anyways.

Honestly it sounds like you just want to press buttons with your brain shut off which basically means you probably shouldn't play pvp in any game.

I know you got a clear bias but part of any PvP game being actually fun is not having stupid cheese oneshot crap. A single mistake shouldn’t kill you right of the bat, it’s simply trash design here.

If the UI was better in game, I’d agree a bit with you, like having the important enemy buffs on their healthbar (the bar above their character).

As it stands, it’s just terrible and gimmicks like that should not exist, especially in a PvP mode. This is GW2 pvp bad levels here, and I really don’t want this for FFXIV.

You’re fine with it because that’s probably what you play. Try to see the other side and how bs it is.

[Valence]

Part of the fun of pvp, especially in MMO's is paying attention to abilities and responding to what they have. So yes, I do want to keep an eye on those things.

If you're engaging a SAM as a melee, its not hard to look out for chiten. If you're ranged and throwing out AoE's... You shouldn't be in range of the SAM anyways.

Honestly it sounds like you just want to press buttons with your brain shut off which basically means you probably shouldn't play pvp in any game.

You're dodging the point made by the person you're replying to. You cannot reliably track every samurai adversary in a blob puddle of 50 players where you can't even see the enemy party list on top of it. That's FLs, and not CC.

[Nubrication]

I know you got a clear bias but part of any PvP game being actually fun is not having stupid cheese oneshot crap. A single mistake shouldn’t kill you right of the bat, it’s simply trash design here.

If the UI was better in game, I’d agree a bit with you, like having the important enemy buffs on their healthbar (the bar above their character).

As it stands, it’s just terrible and gimmicks like that should not exist, especially in a PvP mode. This is GW2 pvp bad levels here, and I really don’t want this for FFXIV.

You’re fine with it because that’s probably what you play. Try to see the other side and how bs it is.

I feel like cheese ("executing or receiving") makes any PVP game fun, not just FFXIV. Some examples: Warcraft III: Necromancer Rush back in the day; Starcraft II cannon rush, zergling 6 pool, etc. (back in the day); WoW Pyromancer "poly 1 shot"; Overwatch - a good Widowmaker with headshots; old school DOTA using a really good Techies (hour long games - techies eventually carries LOL). FFXIV MCH 1 shot combo in an earlier patch, WHM holy spam (back in the day). Every PVP game (RTS/MMORPG/MOBA) has some kind of cheese.

Using the "cheese" is fun because you can get an easy win if the opposing team/player is clueless. BUT, even better is when someone tries to USE the cheese AGAINST you and you counter it or make them waste it (in the case of SAM lb). That feeling is much more SATISFYING. That is the essence of PVP, it's not supposed to be laidback, that's what casual PVE is for. PVP is meant to be COMPETITIVE which means you need to be aware, thinking and praying to Hydaelyn that your fingers are dexterous enough to keep up and not make mistakes. Even in "casual PVP," it's STILL A COMPETITION (literally player versus player), if you let your guard down, you will be punished for it (SAM LB), no pun intended.

If I died and lose my BH5 simply because I wasn't paying attention as much as I should, I don't even get mad. I think to myself, how can avoid making the same mistake as before? What did I do wrong?

[Towa-Musa]

I feel like cheese ("executing or receiving") makes any PVP game fun, not just FFXIV. Some examples: Warcraft III: Necromancer Rush back in the day; Starcraft II cannon rush, zergling 6 pool, etc. (back in the day); WoW Pyromancer "poly 1 shot"; Overwatch - a good Widowmaker with headshots; old school DOTA using a really good Techies (hour long games - techies eventually carries LOL). FFXIV MCH 1 shot combo in an earlier patch, WHM holy spam (back in the day). Every PVP game (RTS/MMORPG/MOBA) has some kind of cheese.

Using the "cheese" is fun because you can get an easy win if the opposing team/player is clueless. BUT, even better is when someone tries to USE the cheese AGAINST you and you counter it or make them waste it (in the case of SAM lb). That feeling is much more SATISFYING. That is the essence of PVP, it's not supposed to be laidback, that's what casual PVE is for. PVP is meant to be COMPETITIVE which means you need to be aware, thinking and praying to Hydaelyn that your fingers are dexterous enough to keep up and not make mistakes. Even in "casual PVP," it's STILL A COMPETITION (literally player versus player), if you let your guard down, you will be punished for it (SAM LB), no pun intended.

If I died and lose my BH5 simply because I wasn't paying attention as much as I should, I don't even get mad. I think to myself, how can avoid making the same mistake as before? What did I do wrong?

nah bro, Fun is what pre 6.1 pvp was. pure chaos.

[Kansene]

Using the "cheese" is fun because you can get an easy win if the opposing team/player is clueless. BUT, even better is when someone tries to USE the cheese AGAINST you and you counter it or make them waste it (in the case of SAM lb). That feeling is much more SATISFYING. That is the essence of PVP, it's not supposed to be laidback, that's what casual PVE is for. PVP is meant to be COMPETITIVE which means you need to be aware, thinking and praying to Hydaelyn that your fingers are dexterous enough to keep up and not make mistakes. Even in "casual PVP," it's STILL A COMPETITION (literally player versus player), if you let your guard down, you will be punished for it (SAM LB), no pun intended.

If I died and lose my BH5 simply because I wasn't paying attention as much as I should, I don't even get mad. I think to myself, how can avoid making the same mistake as before? What did I do wrong?

I'm not on the exact same wavelength as your thinking there.
I don't think player A should be allowed to screw up 5 times before getting properly punished, while player B dies instantly from their first and only mistake because said mistake was grazing a SAM with a single AoE.
In that same vein, dropping below 50% randomly in an FL makes you instantly die if a NIN is nearby with their LB ready. That is also unfun, because of course you're going to drop below 50%. You are going to be in situations where your MP has run out and you're in their range.
I get the "punishment for letting your guard down" aspect, but there's a pretty big imbalance going on here. It's a competition where one guy gets a slap on the wrist for playing like an absolute dink while another gets beheaded for a split second where they lose focus.
I like being punished for not paying attention. I like there being consequences for mistakes. Just hecking please by Jove, make the punishment be anything but a guaranteed oneshot.

The solution to NIN shouldn't be "never take damage and never be within a NIN's range".
Likewise, the solution to SAM shouldn't be "never use your AoE if a SAM is within 500 yalms and also never target them".
A job being able to lock you out of a huge portion of your kit on the idea that "maybe they can oneshot me" is just poor job design to my eyes.
And before the "lol skill issue" guys come running, I'll state again that I don't think the SAM LB is overpowered. It's just lame.
If I get dogpiled by a bunch of guys stunlocking me I die knowing I got 5v1'd or something and superior numbers should always come out on top, no worries.
If I get outmatched by an opponent who times their CC to prevent me from healing up or guarding and then finishes me with a chain of strong abilities, no worries.

If I see my HP go from 100% to dead in the blink of an eye because I play BLM and my only damage source comes from AoE, and that AoE clipped a SAM who came running in from the side, that doesn't sit well with me.

I've believed for a long time, and I'll continue to believe the following:
- Oneshot LBs should just be removed.
- SAM should get stronger baseline abilities, and maybe some counter-attack LB that, while heavily punishing attackers, doesn't oneshot them.
- NIN's LB should be... well, literally anything else than what they currently have.
- Remove Chainsaw proc for good measure and instead replace it with something reliable but less broken, like what the actual heck dude.

And to clarify: I'm talking FL.
In CC even the SAM LB is whatever.

[RyanCousland]

Honestly a PLD that eats the instakill for a teamate is a hero imo

Youre welcome but tbh for me i just get a little bored and figure fuck it ill bite the bullet

[Burmecia]

Honestly it sounds like you just want to press buttons with your brain shut off which basically means you probably shouldn't play pvp in any game.

oh noo you caught me, ive been made to look like a dunce--

anyway
slight to moderate variation in regard how you deal with different jobs as your enemy is fine, but if you have to do too much time consuming brainwork for one job's one attack thing in context, the similar kinds of which have been yeeted from other jobs' toolkits already mind you, i find that asymmetry worth to be discussed about.

maybe the real root of the problem is that ff14 pvp could be better designed,
designed to encourage more of that strategic gameplay of...
･:☆｡ keeping an eye on things ｡☆:･ﾟ

now, show us on the doll where losing kaiten hurt you the most

In CC even the SAM LB is whatever.