Far Northern Attire

[Boblawblah]

Well, yes? Should all symbols be stripped of meaning and associations with that particular group of people that actually maintained that culture and be used just as aesthetics? Do you think that transforming these traditions into something hollow as an aesthetic is saving that culture?

I can respect your opinion, but I don't agree that a culture is being harmed here.

[Melorie]

I can respect your opinion, but I don't agree that a culture is being harmed here.

Harm is a strong word. My point is: there are many ways of companies bring representation to their products that are more useful to everyone involved. After all, a different process of creating these pieces can make a difference in the way we consume these traditions. And at the end of the day, this mindset of turning everything in an aesthetic which you can profit from IS harmful.

Nothing was killed for the creation of a pixel sherpa hat, no harm comes from a rando in limsa wearing the set.

Zzzz. You clearly don't get my point. Which is how turning traditional atttires, patterns and symbols into a hollow aesthetic is what fuels worse actions against these cultures.

[ronibosch]

Harm is a strong word. My point is: there are many ways of companies bring representation to their products that are more useful to everyone involved. After all, a different process of creating these pieces can make a difference in the way we consume these traditions.

Would it have been better if the outfit was a part of an in-game culture, like they did with the Whalaqee and the Azim Steppes tribes? Both are influenced by a blend of cultures from their respective, real-life locations.

[Melorie]

Would it have been better if the outfit was a part of an in-game culture, like they did with the Whalaqee and the Azim Steppes tribes? Both are influenced by a blend of cultures from their respective, real-life locations.

I honestly don't believe that there is a universal solution. I do believe that there are MANY ways of including these things in a respectful, involved way. I also believe that if you're able to include that culture in the game somehow, and involve people from that culture into the writing/art/research, then it IS a better look than slapping a 18 usd mogstation attire. hah

I was happy when I finally saw Thavnair, clearly inspired by South East Asia, given that the FF universe has been borrowing from concepts of Hinduism and other religions (that aren't just religions but also a way of life) of that particular region for a long, long time. Even the name of some mobs are in nepali. It would make me even happier if I knew that there are artists from these regions involved in the creation of all this somehow.

Because representation isn't about having that thing there, but also about giving opportunity and space for those that are responsible for this culture being alive. Otherwise, you're just taking that aspect that you find cool/pretty for yourself.

[ronibosch]

I honestly don't believe that there is a universal solution. I do believe that there are MANY ways of including these things in a respectful, involved way. I also believe that if you're able to include that culture in the game somehow, and involve people from that culture into the writing/art/research, then it IS a better look than slapping a 18 usd mogstation attire. hah

I was happy when I finally saw Thavnair, clearly inspired by South East Asia, given that the FF universe has been borrowing from concepts of Hinduism and other religions (that aren't just religions but also a way of life) of that particular region for a long, long time. Even the name of some mobs are in nepali. It would make me even happier if I knew that there are artists from these regions involved in the creation of all this somehow.

Because representation isn't about having that thing there, but also about giving opportunity and space for those that are responsible for this culture being alive. Otherwise, you're just taking that aspect that you find cool/pretty for yourself.

I can agree with that. I personally wouldn't mind the addition of a culture in FFXIV that is influenced by real-life Far Northern tribes.

I snickered a bit at your last sentence, because the FF series' worldbuilding relies heavily on picking bits and pieces from folklore around the world that they find cool/pretty and enhancing it. Not that it detracts from your point, of course!

[Melorie]

I can agree with that. I personally wouldn't mind the addition of a culture in FFXIV that is influenced by real-life Far Northern tribes.

I snickered a bit at your last sentence, because the FF series' worldbuilding relies heavily on picking bits and pieces from folklore around the world that they find cool/pretty and enhancing it. Not that it detracts from your point, of course!

True! It borrows from many cultures, it's just that I haven't seen yet such a vast representation of this particular region. Even in other games, it's uncommon, so it made an impression.

[ronibosch]

True! It borrows from many cultures, it's just that I haven't seen yet such a vast representation of this particular region. Even in other games, it's uncommon, so it made an impression.

I agree! I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't know much about that region of the world until I was in college (American education, what can I say?), but learning more about these cultures in my adulthood and seeing them appear more in media has been pretty cool and enlightening.

[Rokke]

Zzzz. You clearly don't get my point. Which is how turning traditional atttires, patterns and symbols into a hollow aesthetic is what fuels worse actions against these cultures.

The other day when I went on my usual JP figrue website, I saw a fashion doll clearly inspired by my culture's holiday and dress on the front page. People born on the other side of the planet thought we were beautiful enough to sculpt and style into a doll. I dunno, I think thats really cool. She's a ways out of my budget so no doll for me lol, but the idea that theres going to be Japanese people in Japan with a doll on their shelf dressed like I did when I was a kid is wild to me.

SE has built their fantasy settings picking cool bits and bobs from cultures around the world. The Ixali naming scheme is based on Nahuatl. Ronka is an amalgamation of Mesoamerica peoples. XV DLC included a (albeit sorry looking) charro suit. Quetzalcoatl is semiregularly used as a boss/enemy/summon across games. I could write an essay about it on twitter and demand restitution but why? Someone from the other side of the world saw something from my culture and it stuck with them enough for them to want to work it in a video game. I hope if we go to the new world in 7.0 I get a folklorico dress.

[Melorie]

SE has built their fantasy settings picking cool bits and bobs from cultures around the world. The Ixali naming scheme is based on Nahuatl. Ronka is an amalgamation of Mesoamerica peoples. XV DLC included a (albeit sorry looking) charro suit. Quetzalcoatl is semiregularly used as a boss/enemy/summon across games. I could write an essay about it on twitter and demand restitution but why? Someone from the other side of the world saw something from my culture and it stuck with them enough for them to want to work it in a video game. I hope if we go to the new world in 7.0 I get a folklorico dress.

Listen, you are allowed to have your visions regarding what you find enough/respectful. I'm sure many people that are Maia (just an example!), for example, might NOT agree with you or even agree, who knows (despite most people believing that the Maias are some sort of distant thing that vanished because of that Mel Gibson movie, they still exist, resist and struggle today, and even participate in indigenous protests in other countries! lol). What I'm offering here is the vision that it's very common that big companies gather whatever symbols/traditions/attires they find cool, make money from it and it never gets back to these communities when a lot of them could be more involved in the artistic process and profits generated from these representations. Many, MANY groups of different cultures have discussions on this, associations, even legal cases. It's a known thing that happens and that is alerted by indigenists, anthropologists and such.

This isn't about someone in Japan or whatever finding it cool and pretty. It's not a personal thing. It is about the culture of consumerism, it's about big companies making profit from smaller groups that have no political power, voice, opportunities or place in the same industries their culture is being used as a constant inspiration.

It's a discussion that has a reason to exist and, imo, has a point. And we could be thinking about how we can make all these trades better for both sides. And these companies would be able to deliver even deeper content inspired by these same cultures if they were able to include them into the process. I would LOVE to be able to buy an outfit with the description made by a Saami, or the texture, or a % of the profits being delivered for a respectable institution. For me this sounds dope and we could use more of this in online games in general. Maybe this whole situation give SEnix some ideas.
But it's a shame how most people in the playerbase prefers to see it as a black and white situation and "they're greedy and they want to take my catgirl outfit!!!".

As I said, you might not agree with this. You might not even see the harm in this as even some people from the said culture here do not. I'm just saying that a lot of these representations, most of the time, doesn't really even begins scratching the surface of what's needed for these groups to be truly appreciated and actually get something out of this appreciation.