Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Valence]

If Bard and Red Mage is not silence the moment SAM used Chiten to buy your team mate's enough time for Kuzushi effect to run out, blame on those players.

1) What if you don't have a red mage or a bard?
2) Are you seriously asking team mates to react faster than the SAM that is literally glued to party lists?
3) If the SAM gets denied they'll just start again 25s later

It's always the same with people, they have literally no clue about the difference between optimal balance and effort balance, and will always give you perfect skill play counters and unicorn excuses to justify a rampant problem.

[Valence]

We just have different ideas of "shit game design." I have no issues dealing with SAM lb (in all pvp modes) and neither do most of the people in high level Crystal. In high level crystal games, most of the time SAM lb kills 1 person because 1. people don't clump up and 2. people have more awareness. SAM lb *usually* only catches people that are not paying attention. The only people that are complaining about SAM lb can't even get to crystal, so there's that. I get it, 80% of the people in FL just want to mindlessly kill things. The difference between me and the people complaining is that I'm 100% against mindless pvp, having something to keep you on your toes makes it more fun (for me atleast).

Somebody hasn't been playing a lot of AOE reliant jobs I see.

[Astralrisk]

I don't know if it has been said (I am too lazy to read all the pages in the thread lol) but I feel like the reason why this gimmick exists is because the rest of the SAM's kit is pretty bad. I think generally speaking it's the worst job for PvP, and it only gets worse in FLs where all its problems are amplified. Outside of Chiten, not just because it enables the LB to one shot but also because it gives a very powerful damage reduction. The kit is horrible and the one shot gimmick is the only thing keeping this job from flatlining. I am not defending the gimmick, I think it's dumb and should be changed to make the class not be terrible and over reliant on one ability.

[Kansene]

I don't know if it has been said (I am too lazy to read all the pages in the thread lol) but I feel like the reason why this gimmick exists is because the rest of the SAM's kit is pretty bad. I think generally speaking it's the worst job for PvP, and it only gets worse in FLs where all its problems are amplified. Outside of Chiten, not just because it enables the LB to one shot but also because it gives a very powerful damage reduction. The kit is horrible and the one shot gimmick is the only thing keeping this job from flatlining. I am not defending the gimmick, I think it's dumb and should be changed to make the class not be terrible and over reliant on one ability.

Big true. I never worry about a SAM charging me openly and in the clear unless they bring friends.
I'd love it if they changed their LB and gave their kit a big ole buff.
Only dnc feels like less of a threat than them (outside their LBs)

[Astralrisk]

Big true. I never worry about a SAM charging me openly and in the clear unless they bring friends.
I'd love it if they changed their LB and gave their kit a big ole buff.
Only dnc feels like less of a threat than them (outside their LBs)

DNC is weird since you can argue there kit is also bad, but least you could cope with the fact your a support class just buffing someone. SAM doesn't contribute to the team at all, both in terms of damage and utility. And even if the LB does oneshot, you have to rely on two cooldowns to actually make it good. And that other CD being your main defensive tool outside of Guard. If the enemy team has the good thinking power to recognize to not attack the SAM who has that buff up, you're just wasting your CD and are now more vulnerable as a result.

[Valence]

I don't understand why people keep dissing on DNC considering its realtively high AOE/pressure potential. On top of being slippery to catch. It's not just a walking LB.

If anything it's the actual dance partner that kinda sucks since it's heavily restricted by range alone.

[Mistress_Irika]

SAM never needed the one-shot mechanic in the first place. I was confused as to why they added it from the start. 24k damage that can ignore guard seems like enough to pressure a team. (I do wonder if the bug is fixed with the LB not applying damage when one guards, because I have dropped it and haven't touched it for months honestly.) If they felt like buffing the potency to 30k I'm fine with that too. The mechanic needs to go, because it's just not healthy for frontlines. You can hard CC SAM or even throw a bind to take away their option to LB for a couple of seconds. However, it doesn't change the fact that you'll never know when the enemy SAM has it ready. Perks of the limit break charging outside of combat :P

But hey...what do I know? I've stopped playing frontlines over a year ago.

I don't understand why people keep dissing on DNC considering its realtively high AOE/pressure potential. On top of being slippery to catch. It's not just a walking LB.

With the exception of certain classes majority can punish DNC for just approaching. Therefore, majority is going to continue to look at DNCs as a free meal despite the crazy utility that they have. I think they have the most utilities in the game being buffs, heals, shields, and their LB, but being outrange by most classes it's probably going to continue to be overlooked until either a DNC main steps up and takes rank 1 for the CC season or the 15y range that they have gets buffed, the latter being more sensible.

[Nubrication]

Somebody hasn't been playing a lot of AOE reliant jobs I see.

You mean like SMN, SAM, WAR. Sorry to burst your expectations but I play every class. There's just a skill difference between us which is why you have problems dealing with SAM and I don't. I know when not to AOE and when to AOE. You can pull people out of position by baiting them so that you won't have to aoe into a SAM (in CC). If it's FL and you're ranged, you can literally run out of range of SAM LB. I already went over things you can do in my previous post and I don't feel like going into more detail with bronze players. If you feel like SAM LB is OP, I can't help you anymore than I already did buddy.

[Divinemights]

1) What if you don't have a red mage or a bard?
2) Are you seriously asking team mates to react faster than the SAM that is literally glued to party lists?
3) If the SAM gets denied they'll just start again 25s later

It's always the same with people, they have literally no clue about the difference between optimal balance and effort balance, and will always give you perfect skill play counters and unicorn excuses to justify a rampant problem.

First of all, there are many counters and I pick Bard and Red Mages because these two jobs are most popular jobs post 6.1, especially Bard is being popular since day one Frontline exist.
This render your "what if" scenario pretty much pointless.
In my 20,000+ games I haven't see a single Frontline match where there is no Bard at least.

For your second point, no, I do not and will never expect my teammates to react faster than SAM; but I do expect them to understand the fundamental of their job and simple ability to follow the countdown macro.
Take example of Bard (because it is easier to understand to avoid complexity), it is a support job and the ability of using Silent Noctourne defines this job.
We won't even see QQ of DRK, SAM, or Monk in Secure if Bard knows how to use Paeon and Silent effectively.

In regard to your last point, I don't have that issue because I use countdown focus macro.
Normal SAM is either dead before he can cast LB or die after his Kuzushi effect is neutralized.
Remember, as long as you lower this SAM's HP threshold under 50%, he is as good as dead because of Ninja (please don't say what if there is no ninja, because that is literally impossible this expansion)
SAM played by veterans, I will just repeat and rinse, no big deal.
Still, it doesn't warrant this as issue of job design

I am not saying current SAM design isn't cheap.
I actually pretty much hate it because SAM was my primary in 4.0 and 5.0.
Since patch 2.4, SE has never revert their PvP job design.
Each ability always has multiple counters.
You don't like SAM this expansion?
You will just have to wait for next major change like me in which is patch 7.1

[Nubrication]

@Garten I totally agree that some jobs have a disadvantage against this "gimmick." The new pvp style is more similar to Overwatch than it is to arena style. People are finding that hard to grasp. It's not meant for a single player to single handedly win a game (which I get is possible if you're a SAM and the other team is clueless but the LB has 2 min charge time - so it means it can be used generally about 2-3x in 1 CC game whereas other LBs can be almost spammed <i.e. WHM>). It's meant to be played more of as a team.

If you're a MCH in frontline you should not be dying to SAM AT ALL. In FL, a SAM innately mitigates more dmg than a MCH does. So why would you even try to solo a SAM? This is all assuming you are in a 1v1 or similar situation. In a 1v1, you can literally run away. You gotta know when to run and when to stay. If it's a scenario where it's multiple people on your team vs a lonely SAM, you SHOULD BE EXPECTING A SAM LB, so use extra precaution. If he gets away, so what? Atleast you won't lose your BH if you have it.

I think it all comes down to awareness and experience. Good players will know when other players are about to use certain skills/LBs, it's sort of an intuition. Anybody can learn this with experience. Sometimes it's kinda like Chess, you have to think ahead of what this player might do in the current situation.

I.E.: you're running away from a SAM in a 1v1, he'll probably chase you if he's full HP and none of your teammates are around. A SAM has a bind and stun so be prepared for that. You don't need to purify the bind if you have a lot of HP because the stun is more dangerous. If he binds you, and you see him cast oki namakiri, then shield immediately because that's the SAM's burst window. There's also a chance that he'll pop Chiten (blue buff) at the same time so that he can do more dmg to you and also possibly LB 1 shot you. So be prepared for that. If he doesn't have the buff on, just use either AAnchor (norm or analyzed) OR an Analyzed Bioblaster and then sprint, forcing him to use his purify if he wants to keep chasing you. Usually they'll back up after that. If he keeps going, the CC you used should've gave you plenty of space, he will probably dash + stun you next, so be prepared to purify. Once you purify the stun you're pretty much home free. You can also use LoS (line of sight) i.e. corners to prevent him from dashing to you. Obviously don't use your blast charge to attack him while you're trying to run away (the dmg isn't worth it, you slow down in movement and you have a cast time). Good MCHs will be able to "kite" SAMs with their toolkit.
If you get stunned first, just purify it and then do everything else pretty much the same as above. If you have enough mana to recuperate, you probably won't even need to purify in FL because their (SAM) burst is mitigated already.

Not attacking a SAM is a perfectly good tactic, there are so many other squishies that can be taken out instead of a tanky SAM in FL.