Building a Better Gaming Community: The Advantages of a Console-Only Final Fantasy XI

[solimiano]

Hello and welcome to Hell's, may I take your order?

I'll take a scotch nea, since there's no rocks.

[solimiano]

Your fflogs begs to differ

What's that, some cheat you guys use? I don't, started on the ps3, upgraded to ps4 and now on ps5, so I would never touch third party addons.

[Renalt]

What's that, some cheat you guys use? I don't, started on the ps3, upgraded to ps4 and now on ps5, so I would never touch third party addons.

Methinks thou protest too much.

[Davixxa]

This is post is split up into two, because of the 3000 character limit.

If the forums were properly moderated any post advocating the use of addons would be deleted and the user would be warned/banned automatically, no need to report anyone

Lol, lmao even. That's a red herring fallacy, more specifically, an appeal to motive, which is a subgroup of ad hominem arguments - you know, also known as personal attacks. As a general rule of thumb, parsing culture has arisen from a lack of methods to gauge your performance ingame. And yes, every single player bringing their A-game is necessary for clearing an Ultimate.

No. You don't need third party tools to clear an ultimate. What you do need, is to know how to play your class, and that is without even getting into the rabbit hole about what constitutes a third-party tool.

Even then, ACT has been directly referenced by YoshiP as being a grey area in PLL52, which he referred back to in the most recent Lodestone post addressing 3rd party tools.

I don't care if your disabled or not, that's the difference, for me everyone that breaks the TOS/law need to be treated the same, as a criminal and pay for it either being banned/ paying a fine or going to prison, as long as you learn you cannot break the rules.

Without people breaking the rules, we would not have democracy in the first place. We would not have rights for pretty much every minority out there. You'd still be working the farm for some low royalty somewhere with no chance of ever improving your living standard.

He won't be a snowflake like most you are, being offended by anything and everything.
I was raised by the old guard, and so will he, he will be a man, not a pu***.

Wow, dropping casual misogyny right there. Not to mention the toxic masculinity.

[Davixxa]

He can cry all he wants... Especially if it's when is being punished.
As long as he follows the rules and don't misbehave he has everything he needs and wants, as soon as breaks the rules, it all goes away.
Action - consequence.
It's as simple as that.
And I'm not the one breaking the rules and defending cheating and advocating breaking the tos. I defend the rules and regulations, my honor is intact while you have none

This is how you get a traumatized kid. Dude will learn that he needs to do things in secret - and that he needs to keep secrets. Your kid will be afraid of you as a child, likely cutting off the contact when moving into adulthood, when he realizes how unhealthy his relationship has been to you growing up. Best case scenario. Like others have pointed out, another likely scenario is that you get an Andrew Tate. Or, you know, potentially even a Columbine.

And quite frankly, no. Nobody here is defending cheating. People are generally arguing that these tools should be in the game in the first place. It is my opinion that parsing culture is a service problem. Square Enix won't provide it.

We wouldn't have had party buff timers in the game without people highlighting that the game really needed that. If the tools for improving your play were in the game, say, by displaying your DPS whenever you hit a target dummy, or are in Stone, Sky, Sea, and if the Duty Recorder's functionality was expanded, I'd imagine a lot fewer people would parse.

Regardless, arguing parsing culture is a moot point anyway. Someone could write an Excel Macro that reads the game's own Combat Log file anyway and parses through that, and you could get essentially the same result you'd get by using ACT, as YoshiP also pointed out in PLL52

[Absimiliard]

Like others have pointed out, another likely scenario is that you get an Andrew Tate. Or, you know, potentially even a Columbine.

Or a modern Jack the Ripper.

[solimiano]

Snip

In relation to first, for now he doesn't hide anything, if indeed with time he starts doing that it will only be worse for him, the punishment will last alot longer because not only did he broke the rules he also lied about it....
But my son's education is for me to worry about, is going to be educated the same way I was, rules are ment to be followed not broken.

Second point you are all defending breaking tos, which is the same thing as cheating.

Let me give you a simple example, to see the difference.
You can use a 15 line macro in game, is that cheating, no.
You can get a bot, which in simplified terms is a much longer macro, is that cheating yes.

In regars to Yoshi P, he stated last ultimate and now again, all addons are against tos, no grey areas, just because in the past he let it slide doesn't mean he is doing that now, he purposefully made the statement that all and any addons are a breach of tos, doesn't matter if it's to change a filter or full blown botting with hacks, it all fall under the same category, breach of tos.
If you have an idea of how to improve the game, create a thread about that idea, write an email, write a letter the old fashion way, get enough support and it will eventually be implemented in-game if the Devs want it.
Do not ever breach the tos by using, advocating, disseminating addons not created by square enix.

And finally regarding the inclusion of said addons in the official game, if they are in the official game they are no longer addons...
I know it's a hard concept to grasp and understand, but anything released by square, super duper awesome, anything release by John Godknowswhat bad forbidden and banned

[Davixxa]

In relation to first, for now he doesn't hide anything, if indeed with time he starts doing that it will only be worse for him, the punishment will last alot longer because not only did he broke the rules he also lied about it....
But my son's education is for me to worry about, is going to be educated the same way I was, rules are ment to be followed not broken.

Sure. And rebellion is a natural part of growing up, but I digress. I'm happy I'm not your daughter.

Second point you are all defending breaking tos, which is the same thing as cheating.

Sure as hell isn't. There are many ways of breaking the Terms of Service. Cheating is one of them. Another is spreading casual misogyny around. From the Prohibited Activities:

It is prohibited to make any discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity/state/religion/occupation/organizations. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

Let me give you a simple example, to see the difference.
You can use a 15 line macro in game, is that cheating, no.
You can get a bot, which in simplified terms is a much longer macro, is that cheating yes.

From the digest of PLL57.

Suppose we were asked “Are we allowed to use FFXIV and voice chat programs at the same time?” Voice chat doesn’t directly interact with FFXIV’s data, and whether it should be considered a third-party tool is ambiguous, so it’d be difficult to provide a definitive answer. Even ACT, which calculates damage values based on the battle log displayed in-game, is difficult to determine as a tool or not and would be considered a grey area.

In regars to Yoshi P, he stated last ultimate and now again, all addons are against tos, no grey areas, just because in the past he let it slide doesn't mean he is doing that now, he purposefully made the statement that all and any addons are a breach of tos, doesn't matter if it's to change a filter or full blown botting with hacks, it all fall under the same category, breach of tos.

Then, please clarify to me why he linked to the exact part of the live letter where he also addresses ACT as a grey area?

[Davixxa]

If you have an idea of how to improve the game, create a thread about that idea, write an email, write a letter the old fashion way, get enough support and it will eventually be implemented in-game if the Devs want it.
Do not ever breach the tos by using, advocating, disseminating addons not created by square enix.

I'm not advocating for them. I'm simply saying I understand why people do so.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp and understand, but anything released by square, super duper awesome, anything release by John Godknowswhat bad forbidden and banned

So... class guides (The Balance) are banned? Websites where you can find glamour inspiration with items (Eorzea Collection (Western Community)/Mirapri (Japanese community)? You know, things that make use of the game's own publicly available tooltip database/API? Websites where you share crafting macros? Kupo Bot on Discord that pulls data off the lodestone?

All of these, with the exception of the API itself is third party, and released by John Godknowswhat.

[solimiano]

Sure. And rebellion is a natural part of growing up, but I digress. I'm happy I'm not your daughter.



Sure as hell isn't. There are many ways of breaking the Terms of Service. Cheating is one of them. Another is spreading casual misogyny around. From the Prohibited Activities:




From the digest of PLL57.







Then, please clarify to me why he linked to the exact part of the live letter where he also addresses ACT as a grey area?

So it's discrimination to tell other people that they are breaking the law? How does that work out?
There's the law, you don't break it, if you do, you face punishment.

He link to those posts to state that he never approved the use of third party addons, just in case someone like you would go and try to say, 4 years ago or whatever you were saying that he could use ACT, you can't.
And since the time where he considered ACT a grey area, he's stance changed to all addons are prohibited and not endorsed in any way shape or form by square enix or it's Devs.