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  1. #81
    Player
    Krotoan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,591
    Character
    Krotoan Argaviel
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    I would have a giant problem with a company scanning my computer.

    Those systems always get false positives and it's really none of their business to know what I have or to use my resources for their purposes.
    (4)
    WHERE IS THIS KETTLE EVERYONE KEEPS INTRODUCING ME TO?

  2. #82
    Player Midareyukki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Bozja
    Posts
    2,580
    Character
    Harun Asubra
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Vahlnir View Post
    That would make an already bad situation worse. The solution would be to improve the game and lessen the desire for these things. Perhaps make some mechanics easier to read, though not any easier to execute, as an example. Players shouldn't feel the need to zoom out excessively just to see what in the world is going on. Ultimate might be the focus at the moment, but it also shines a light on a lot of other issues, too.
    So far this hasn't been a problem in any Ultimate I've seen, but when people are using third party tools to play your game because they can't see what the heck is going on, that's when you realize your design choices are not the best.

    And to properly illustrate your point: I'm colourblind enough to not be able to spot some colour differences. I can do Kampeos Harma because of shapes rather than colours. When people who can easily see both still screw up the mechanic, it's a sign that figuring out a way to understand the mechanic isn't a problem. Executing it is xD

    But there are fights without that sort of foresight. As well as gameplay elements unrelated to combat (I can't see the gathering nodes very well, they're yellow on yellow). I had people who cleared Ultimates get utterly stuck at Construct 8 and I have to be the one telling them where to go. Dyscalculia is an actual thing, turns out, and not something people throw into the air to bail out of math class.

    So allowing people to identify mechanics shouldn't be a problem. Especially not when the game has markers for most stuff rather than merely relying on minute details like animation tells, buffs or glowing castbars. Those are things that require special attention from everyone. But when the indicator is meant to be clearly visible, that's a mechanic that shouldn't be hard to identify. The challenge is on the execution, no matter how "pfft, easy" we may think it is.
    So when that part becomes a problem due to design, there's likely going to be a need for ways to resolve this. Sometimes, yes, through the use of QoL tools.
    An Ultimate player with some form of disability or problem shouldn't be penalized for using third party tools to help them match the level of everyone else, even if they are strictly forbidden. Because if there's no viable alternative in the game, what, should they just be expected to not engage in the content overall? It's not exactly fair.

    And before someone says "Yeah well life ain't fair :A", need I remind you we're discussing an online videogame with regular updates, and under the assumption that tools that help with these things exist as alternatives?

    Those tools existing is problematic, especially since they open the door for others that enable cheating. And those who want to cheat will do so, regardless of circumstance. But when lacking the alternative, making mechanics who by design should be easy to identify a bit more obvious for them, will mean these tools will have their audience.

    I'll just also add, because I know some people have comprehension issues, cheating is cheating. And that is the problem. I'm just pointing out that this solution could harm more than just cheaters. And that a more viable solution, as Vahlnir pointed out, lies in how the fights are designed.
    (6)
    Last edited by Midareyukki; 02-01-2023 at 12:58 PM.

  3. #83
    Player
    Amenara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,040
    Character
    Rhela Tsurugi
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Not a fan of game companies installing spyware on my PC. Would be an easy out for me to uninstall FF14.
    (4)

  4. 02-01-2023 12:57 PM

  5. #84
    Player FireMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Firemage Li
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by fantasiaaddict View Post
    The innocent have nothing to fear. I support it.
    The "innocent" have much to fear. Stagnation of QoL updates, nothing actually happening, unnecessary crashes, etc
    (12)

  6. #85
    Player
    Zfz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,371
    Character
    Celenir Istarkh
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    I just want to point out that a lot of games have tried to have scanners that scan player systems for cheats and hacks. The result is never a success. Cheats and hacks continue to exist, while legitimate player experiences are frequently harmed. On an open system like the Windows, it is simply not going to work.

    There are other things that can be done about third party tools. For example the zoom hack could possibly be countered by implementing say a culling box that allows players to see the skybox from inside the arena, but if a zoom hack is used to zoom out further than originally designed, then the player camera would naturally be outside the culling box that would cull everything in the arena, making the game display nothing at all.

    I'm sure there are other programmic and level design techniques that can be used this way.
    (5)
    Last edited by Zfz; 02-01-2023 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #86
    Player
    Zebraoracle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    832
    Character
    Zebra Rune
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    The "innocent" have much to fear. Stagnation of QoL updates, nothing actually happening, unnecessary crashes, etc
    I really hate this "if you're innocent you should be fine with it" mindset. How about no, the majority of us aren't doing anything wrong so don't punish us because of a select few?
    (15)

  8. #87
    Player
    Bobby66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    947
    Character
    Paper Wait
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    If they hold an offical World first race then I would be understand if they made those who wanted to take part to down a program to scan their PC, but even then it probably would not catch that really willing to cheat. I do think they should make it so all parties have to stream to take part though. Those that hide footage should not be considered part of the race, if you hide your progression then by no means should you be considered part of the valid race.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellsong View Post
    Okay boomer.

  9. #88
    Player
    SannaR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,320
    Character
    Sanna Rosewood
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    I'm in the middle as on one hand would it be nice if it felt as though they were doing more or did a better job with dealing with cheaters? Yeah, sure. On the other hand any time I hear people talk about these anti cheat software it just never seems to do the job and just ends up bogging down people's systems.
    (1)

  10. #89
    Player
    RitsukoSonoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kugane (No that red crayon is totally legitimate) >.>
    Posts
    3,147
    Character
    Ritsuko Sonoda
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by SannaR View Post
    I'm in the middle as on one hand would it be nice if it felt as though they were doing more or did a better job with dealing with cheaters? Yeah, sure. On the other hand any time I hear people talk about these anti cheat software it just never seems to do the job and just ends up bogging down people's systems.
    That's the issue tbh. Client side anti cheat software is just a general annoyance to everyone. It makes games less stable or lowers performance due to additional tasks and resource usage but doesn't actually stop people from cheating in any long term sense.

    What would likely work better is more transparency in punishing the cheaters. Bonus points if they can make hilarious videos like that one Rust admin that goes around messing with the cheaters he finds lol.
    (5)

  11. #90
    Player
    Neoyoshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    ☀ Ul’dah ☀
    Posts
    985
    Character
    Neoyoshi Kaligawa
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Even if I was for it, they'd never actually implement it. I will always be in favor of game devs and communities looking for ways to stop cheaters, but automated anticheat software has proven to not be the way to do it in a large mmorpg environment such as this.

    Anticheat software tends to have a better impact on games with smaller player groups in a single game instance, like FPS games or Arena pvp games; where these programs can have a tighter focus on what to look for with far fewer machines/clients it has to scan.

    In the end, human/manual intervention just works better for FFXIV; it's not perfect, but it's much better then the hellscape of something like XIGNCODE3 or nProtect Gameguard.
    (1)


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