Something should be done for players that love a challenge in Alliance Raids.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

Wow...I remember about a year and half ago, the first time I did the Nier raids, they almost made me quit the game. I was still new, and quite bad (still am by a lot of standards) but now I get excited when I get to do a Nier raid for whatever reason, enjoy the challenge and wish there was even more content like that. But I think back to how hard it was for me when I was new. Not sure what the solution is.

[Seraphor]

Wow...I remember about a year and half ago, the first time I did the Nier raids, they almost made me quit the game. I was still new, and quite bad (still am by a lot of standards) but now I get excited when I get to do a Nier raid for whatever reason, enjoy the challenge and wish there was even more content like that. But I think back to how hard it was for me when I was new. Not sure what the solution is.

My first 'on content' Alliance was Orbonne Monastery, which was 10x times tougher than Nier on release. Thunder God Cid was basically savage on day one, everyone ragequitting because too many people were failing mechanics, overlapping bubbles or not stacking was an instant wipe, you HAD to pass the tethers in relay or you died, and wiping so many times we'd actually get locked out of the duty, with not enough time left to beat Ultima.

It was brilliant. Wish we had that with Myths of the Realm.

[Absurdity]

It wouldn't be easier it be the same difficulty but instead of having 8 per party you would have 4.

It would also entirely defeat the purpose of getting some more challenge in alliance raids, at that point you're just making another criterion dungeon.

[Zairava]

Why do we need casual content turned into hardcore content? Would you be fine with a story mode of the Ultimates that gives a slightly less impressive weapon and title?

It's fine to have things that are just for hardcore players and stuff that's just for casual players. 24 man raids fall under the casual umbrella, and for high player count hardcore content there's BA and DRS already, and any new exploration zone would have a similar high player count hardcore raid.

More content bad, less content good!

Seriously, these takes have been incredibly irritating to read for a while now.

There already is something like that for a far easier ultimate with a "slightly less impressive weapon". It's called Savage

Literally nothing is taken away from you enjoying casual content if we have ex alliance raids. You don't even have to acknowledge its existence. Believe it or not, there are people out there that want a challenge in alliance raids and understand that the standard versions will likely never be as challenging as orbonne again, as much as we wish they were. Not everyone wants to be locked to a faceroll difficulty in the content they enjoy.

BA and DRS are two raids. DRS is practically dead content because there's almost no reason to run it more than once. If anything, their existence proves that people would run ex alliance raids if they're fun to do and the rewards are fitting. BA is still an active thing for that reason despite being beaten into the ground a million times over.

We aren't asking for base alliance raids to be stooped up to EX levels, we are asking for the option to run a harder version of it (via extreme version) with rewards. Whether it's augmenting the normal mode alliance raid gear or simply a 520 weapon, the item to augment the tome weapon to 530, a chance for a mount, more tomes, whatever. However, apparently even that is too much to ask.

[Deveryn]

More content bad, less content good!

Seriously, these takes have been incredibly irritating to read for a while now.

There already is something like that for a far easier ultimate with a "slightly less impressive weapon". It's called Savage

Literally nothing is taken away from you enjoying casual content if we have ex alliance raids. You don't even have to acknowledge its existence. Believe it or not, there are people out there that want a challenge in alliance raids and understand that the standard versions will likely never be as challenging as orbonne again, as much as we wish they were. Not everyone wants to be locked to a faceroll difficulty in the content they enjoy.

BA and DRS are two raids. DRS is practically dead content because there's almost no reason to run it more than once. If anything, their existence proves that people would run ex alliance raids if they're fun to do and the rewards are fitting. BA is still an active thing for that reason despite being beaten into the ground a million times over.

We aren't asking for base alliance raids to be stooped up to EX levels, we are asking for the option to run a harder version of it (via extreme version) with rewards. Whether it's augmenting the normal mode alliance raid gear or simply a 520 weapon, the item to augment the tome weapon to 530, a chance for a mount, more tomes, whatever. However, apparently even that is too much to ask.

You're asking for more time to be spent (likely taken away from another project) on something that will generate (what?) as a reward. There's no room for the content or whatever level of reward because it's already there.

I've yet to even see a clear picture of what this higher challenge is supposed to look like. Fewer players per team? You can already do that via PF. Are there supposed to be limit cuts and clock mechanics added to these fights? Bozja has already shown how messy things get when you have more than 8 people trying something more difficult than the original version. They pulled alliance and normal raid bosses, made them harder and people couldn't handle it. They even have trash mob fights that are easily wiped because people don't know what to do with a donut and a knockback.

[Zairava]

You're asking for more time to be spent (likely taken away from another project) on something that will generate (what?) as a reward. There's no room for the content or whatever level of reward because it's already there.

It's not my place to speak for the devs but they gave us variant/criterion dungeons this expansion and unreal trials last expansion. So it's my hope that we can get EX alliance raids in the future.

I've already listed some options, but I'll go through them again using the formatting.

• augmenting weekly normal mode alliance gear
• Augmenting tome weapons
• Chance to get a mount. (not sure how they would fail-proof this. maybe 4-5 totems a clear? 1 totem a boss fight?)
• an augmentable weapon (Using current as an example. 520->525 or 530)
• more tomes than normal mode in general

They could do this with future criterion installments too, depending on where they release them in the patch cycle. It is a new installment, after all.

[RyuDragnier]

It would also entirely defeat the purpose of getting some more challenge in alliance raids, at that point you're just making another criterion dungeon.

Except it wouldn't defeat the purpose. 4 people per party means nobody can screw up. You're having to play more carefully because there's only 1 healer per group, and 2 DPS per group. Checks become tighter, and everybody has to push themselves. Almost exactly like *gasp* AN UNREAL!

[dspguy]

I feel like as we've progressed with 24-man raids, we've moved away from actual party mechanics. Think back to CT and that room after the 1st boss with the 3 different areas for the party - some mini boss thing where 4(?) people had to stand on a switch to let the boss be targetable. There were also more insta-kill mechanics. If the alliance didn't do the mechanic, it was a wipe.

That's pretty much gone in this 24-man and there was only 1 insta-kill mechanic in the previous one (the scales at the final boss). Lots of mechanics don't end in a wipe. And they are very very forgiving now.

Think about the final boss of the new 24-man - we get trapped in ice in 3 areas with a DPS check of sorts. However, even if people don't go to their "designated" group's area and just randomly enter these areas... if a group takes out their DPS check and then the center one, it opens up the "locked one." To be more specific, let's say the 3 areas have 12 players, 8 players and 4 players. Naturally, the 4 player DPS check will still be up by the time the 12 and 8 player ones are taken care of. And it will still be up when the center DPS check is dead... allowing all 24 players to take out the last one.

People don't even bother with A B C markers. You just don't need them. It doesn't take much to survive the 3rd boss's stack markers either. 3-4 people can survive it.

I like the mechanics they did add - but the penalty for failing is just not there. It isn't as punishing as previous expansions' 24-man raids.

[VerdeLuck]

More content bad, less content good!

Seriously, these takes have been incredibly irritating to read for a while now.

There already is something like that for a far easier ultimate with a "slightly less impressive weapon". It's called Savage

Literally nothing is taken away from you enjoying casual content if we have ex alliance raids. You don't even have to acknowledge its existence. Believe it or not, there are people out there that want a challenge in alliance raids and understand that the standard versions will likely never be as challenging as orbonne again, as much as we wish they were. Not everyone wants to be locked to a faceroll difficulty in the content they enjoy.

BA and DRS are two raids. DRS is practically dead content because there's almost no reason to run it more than once. If anything, their existence proves that people would run ex alliance raids if they're fun to do and the rewards are fitting. BA is still an active thing for that reason despite being beaten into the ground a million times over.

We aren't asking for base alliance raids to be stooped up to EX levels, we are asking for the option to run a harder version of it (via extreme version) with rewards. Whether it's augmenting the normal mode alliance raid gear or simply a 520 weapon, the item to augment the tome weapon to 530, a chance for a mount, more tomes, whatever. However, apparently even that is too much to ask.

Savages are not casual version of the ultimate. I was proposing a casual version of the ultimate fights, give us a casual DSR that gives weapons and titles. It's just more content and doesn't take away from the ultimate or the hardcore player base's content right? More content is good.

That made you upset right? To have someone ask to take content that caters to you and have it reworked into something it was never meant to be?

[Zairava]

Savages are not casual version of the ultimate. I was proposing a casual version of the ultimate fights, give us a casual DSR that gives weapons and titles. It's just more content and doesn't take away from the ultimate or the hardcore player base's content right? More content is good.

That made you upset right? To have someone ask to take content that caters to you and have it reworked into something it was never meant to be?

Ultimate having a casual variant isn't even on the same footing as extreme having a casual variant and/or vice versa.

That said, not really. If they were to take ultimate and make a version of it for casuals with less show-offy weapons and titles it wouldn't, and shouldn't, bother much of anyone. It very likely wouldn't have ultimate in the name in any form. All it's doing is letting more people access a piece of content. The hardcore version for the people that enjoy the balls to wall experience of ultimate would still be there.

And even with that said, it would only apply to that one specific instanced encounter. Those fights still exist outside of ultimate in separate encounters with normal versions (if you don't count savage door-bosses) outside of coils because they predate raid difficulties.