Ninja needs its knees broken

[Valence]

NIN is completely fine. It has *been* completely fine, going all the way back to s1. Nearly all of the nerfs are more targeted at them being hilariously broken in Frontlines, with only minor impacts on CC.

NIN is the only class that has to decide between using resources for offense or defense. If they're doing too much damage, you're not pressuring them enough.

Seiton is fine, idiocy of instant death mechanics in a game with low tickrate aside. I've seen many, many different Seiton attempts fail even when I was below 50% because a heal hit just before Seiton took its snapshot. It's really funny watching a NIN stabbing you in Guard when you have 20% HP for no effect.

Seiton needs a complete rework, as does Zantetsuken and boosted Chainsaw, but it's not broken or overpowered.

I don't think it's overpowered, unless people actually take advantage of the chain effect, which puts them more on par with the most game impacting LBs if they're pulled right (Phalanx, a multi hit zantetsuken, Skyshatter that lands on unguarded stacks, Bahamut, BLM, etc), which is considered over the global results of a game yes. I just think however, that on its own it's not exactly hard to drop somebody to half HP and kill them. Heals can be a variable, but that's always hiding being perfect counterplays that ask a lot more effort than just pulling a Seiton.

[Lucki]

Ninjas are such buzzkills nuff said.

[Gserpent]

Completely moot points as you can preuse shield, do high ranged damage while taking almost 0 damage yourself to make them lose a bunch of hp and force recovery spam (which should be what ranged physicals should be for), then jump in with hard stun and do high melee burst damage and kill something while you still have your 4 charges of spam recover up then run away while still having an extra healing ontop of it if need be.

You don't need all that survivability, your job is basically like that of a jungler in a moba, you wait for someone else to engage, then you go in and assassinate the main threat, and get back out.
Why ff14 players don't get this is beyond me, and it's the very reason why they added rediculous bloated kits like that of ninja and ideas like the dr's in frontline, because the playerbase overall doesn't get what their role is supposed to be in anything non pve related.

Preusing Huton requires significant setup time. Shurikens are only 6k damage per GCD on a 10 sec recharge timer, equivalent to a BRD's fillers. Hyosho and Goka are 16k but consume a mudra charge.

Melee burst combo requires Assassinate (Shukuchi) and a prepared Aeolian Edge, along with Bunshin. It's not something you can do at the drop of a hat. If they're using a mudra on Raiju, then they cannot deal damage during that time except for Shurikens. Raiju effectively locks away all other GCD damage actions until they've spent both charges. If they commit Shukuchi, Raiju, and Hyosho to a burst cycle, then they have absolutely no defenses available. They have less inherent defense than a White Mage.

NIN cannot do all of what you've described, all at once, with no prep time. You're coming across as someone that loses to something and then whines about it. If NIN's so broken, play it yourself and climb to top 10 on your DC.

[Llynethil]

You don't do it all at once, you harass from ranged, make the enemy waste resources while you don't have to, back off for 10 sec, then go in while you have everything up and they don't.

Again, just shows so much that it's nothing but people who never played an actual pvp game and only think like it's a pve encounter and you can only use skills all at once, concepts like harass and opportunity don't exist for them.

[VoidsentStatus]

Seiton is massively overstated if you're not talking about LP games. Without the kind of coordination necessary to "guarantee" instant Seiton hits, it's strictly C tier material, mostly used to finish off people who were going to be dying anyway and effectively just being a worse Meteodrive.

Just tonight I had a NIN use Seiton on me when I was below half health, in the middle of my Biolysis GCD, and I didn't begin healing until after he was already stabbing me... and Seiton still failed to connect. This isn't some rare occurrence, this is basically every single night that I play and there are people playing NIN (so, every night.) I've also seen people killed by Seiton at 80% HP and they'd been at 80% HP for at least two or three seconds.

It's a complete garbage ability in every fucking sense of the word, because it's wholly reliant on server tickrate and network code in a game with quite possibly the worst fucking network code of any game released in the past 10 years. There are probably PS2 games that are more responsive and snappy than fucking XIV. Seiton is S tier *in theory* but I have literally never seen it pan out that way. Maybe I need to watch more LP tournaments or something.

I'm also willing to accept that it might just be because of Square-Enix *completely* fucking up the network code with 6.3. Hell, I still get severe lag every now and then in games, usually during the first fight. Sounds don't play, animations don't play, and events register a few seconds behind realtime. When I see someone derp out and just fall over dead in the first fight, I just assume they're getting screwed by that lag. 6.3 fucked up a lot of stuff.

If you're referring to on Dynamis, you're playing on the worst pvp data center with people wintrading openly. There were ninja's last season missing LB's on purpose to soft throw matches and didn't hit a single LB for several games straight. If we're talking Crystal/top 100 ninja's, everything you said goes out of the window, they rarely if at all miss LB and its the reason ninjas dominated season 1 climbing wise. The "coordination necessary" to get a kill with it is a joke. all you need is 1-2 shurikens into a 2 big cooldowns -> LB or a single LB chain. You can Misery->Whm LB->Ninja LB, Wyrmwind->Nastrond->Shuriken->Ninja LB, dry MCH LB -> Ninja LB etc. It's more of a speed aspect than dealing with healing because it should casted before that person can even realize they should need to heal to avoid being in danger. The reason ninja is annoying to most ranged classes is purely because after you get so much as tickled you can get nuked and lb'd before you can even react to the point your only safety is staying near full health and out of attack range of their teammates so they can't combo.

[Zachia]

Warriors need more nerfed than anything in this game.

[Llynethil]

Warriors need more nerfed than anything in this game.

Why would a job that can barely do what it should do compared to drk or pala need nerfing?

[george357]

need to stop necrobumping this trash topics

[Zachia]

The amount of healing, stuns / leaps, pulls "crowed control" seems op compared to say dark knight and gunbreaker. Warriors and paladins are the only tanks that seem powerful to me. I don't see many good drk's at all. Let alone gun breakers.

[Valence]

The amount of healing, stuns / leaps, pulls "crowed control" seems op compared to say dark knight and gunbreaker. Warriors and paladins are the only tanks that seem powerful to me. I don't see many good drk's at all. Let alone gun breakers.

Try salted earth at the right time on a full team, and watch your team nuke them out of the sky. I've seen total teamwipes just because of a skilled use of that ability.

GNB on the other hand, is an indestructible brick that actually deals damage in tank mode. Can also swap to DPS if you're a good player, but the basic GNB tank is already solid.