For those who struggle with group content

[Conadrium]

Could people have thought they could sneak in a friend at the end by abusing votekick? It was a thing all the time in WoW (and all the more vexing there, because WoW actually gives you the leaver penalty for being involuntarily kicked ... it's mostly killed off queued content there outside of alt leveling speedruns and full premades) and it seems like the culture has been seeping in steadily since The Lawsuit and the EW player explosion ...

(And in that light, quite many MMOs have the problem of expecting speedrun performance to the point that first timers and casuals get short shrift. Remember ESO's early days? Unlock dungeon, queue in, get kicked so fast for undergearedness, that the load screen literally took you back to the world without even seeing the dungeon at all)

As a shadowlands wow player no it hasn’t killed queued content there. And no it’s basically impossible to get a friend in that way. You can’t be kicked on zoning in OR while in combat so someone actually has to stop pulling and sit there to kick you. That just doesn’t happen unless you are an actual detriment, since the wasted time ruins any chance of a “speed run”

You should really stop trying to use other games to explain this one.

[Conadrium]

I feel like this is a popular forum myth that I have never actually seen happen in my five years of playing. I myself have been given friendly advice and pointers on a number of jobs in DF and no one has ever gotten kicked or berated for it. I've had tanks point out that I needed to keep Enochian up when I was still learning BLM back in the day, to keep Death's Design up on the target when I was learning RPR. Other players told me to trust my HoTs more when I was learning AST because I was overhealing too much, and various people helped me on mechanics that I was messing up on. And all of it was a huge help.

I mean, if you're a jerk about it then yeah, you'll likely get reported. And I have found that a lot of people legit don't know the difference between "Hey RPR make sure you're keeping debuff up, big DPS boost," and "Jesus what's up with your DPS dude???"

And that's not an exaggeration.

You misunderstand the post. I said if you give someone feed back AND kick them, they will likely report you. No matter how the feedback is presented it makes YOU the target of THEIR failure. No one likes to blame themselves, that’s basic human nature.

[Darnath]

My struggles with group content is pretty much almost everything you listed.
Issues with pattern recognition : Yup
Social Anxiety : Oh hecks ya
Practice : Since no PTR (thank goodness) yup

I thank the devs for implementing the trust system. Heck, it's how I level my offjobs now. It makes the MSQ dungeon(s) enjoyable until I properly memorize the patterns and can do them in DF. As for stuff not covered by trust system (Trials, Alliance, Normal)...

MSQ Trial : I'll grit my teeth and bear with it the first time, then try to study it until my old brain absorbs it
Alliance and Normal Raids and optional non savage old trials (looking at you Memoria Misera) : Again, I'll study it until my old brain absorbs it. Alliance takes much longer since there's 4 bosses to remember in one go.

As for my character, I actually baked it into her lore. She started as a Gladiator/Paladin to be a protector, but seeing her menders aether run low (aka me watching my DF healers going OOM way too often) she put down the sword and shield and picked up the pistol to try to help fights end faster and thus reduce the stress on the menders (aka I hated being a burden on healers). Over time, she felt bad again not actually contributing the necessary damage to speed up fights so she learned the art of astrology (the trust system helped me learn to become a healer instead albeit the trust tanks are neigh invincible).

As for looking forward to? First and foremost, the MSQ story. 9 out of 10 times it's always been enjoyable to play the game and enjoy being an influence through it all. Secondly is the soloable/small party grind content. One thing that bugs me is the tribal quests and grind content tends to be part of the .5 patches.

[Lium]

You misunderstand the post. I said if you give someone feed back AND kick them, they will likely report you. No matter how the feedback is presented it makes YOU the target of THEIR failure. No one likes to blame themselves, that’s basic human nature.

Oh, well yeah. I mean, why would you kick someone after giving them advice? I assume you mean, you've given someone some pointers and then they refused to correct their mistakes?

Even then, unless you're playing savage/EX content, I would see no reason for a kick in normal content, unless they are intentionally slowing the group down or doing things like harassing other players or just generally being disruptive. The general consensus on the forum is that the game is way too easy and pretty much all dungeons are facerolling boring content. That's what people here say all the time. They appear to want SE to greatly increase the difficulty of normal content.

So, if we take what the forums say at face value that normal dungeons are way too easy, then someone not playing their job optimally shouldn't matter much. It will add maybe five more minutes to your DF run? Anecdotally, I've been in dungeons where the healer has died or someone was having connection issues, and we just 3-manned it with hardly any issues.

Don't get me wrong, everyone's time is valuable, but this brings up a whole different discussion about disproportionate expectations in normal content. Hence, why a lot of folks with social anxiety or other issues tend to avoid group content. Which is the entire point of this thread.

[SlouchyBard]

That dragoon was just tanking the floor again :P Nothing to see here

I think the last trial I did was one that definitely added to my general anxiety of playing with others. After each sprout had died; instead of rezing a single person; the high level players ignored us all and beat the boss. It's not fun to watch a boss fight from the floor and its crap behaviour that makes the community look really bad.

I am not a fan when it happens but I had it happen during a boss fight I ALWAYS had trouble on (side content) and it helped me learn the mechanic. Granted, if I went back and did that fight now, I would be in the same boat as before.

But if I am healer and I am up. I will hard rez if my swiftcast is down. If I need people up then and I know the next mechanic won't kill me. I just shield myself and continue raising.

The only time I don't rez right away is when I see that "disconnect" symbol. I usually give it about 10 seconds before I raise in case they fully disconnect.

[Ceridwenae]

I wish I could gather all of you socially anxious people and progress together

We're the same data centre. I'm quite happy to come with, if you want.

[Sigma5]

Trials are the momentum killer, just the most unfun, tedious content you could ever imagine. I mentally checked out of the story already and probably wont finish it those trials are sooooo bad.

Duty roulette is a double edged sword playing with randoms is fun, but being thrown in a dungeon you don't remember can be pure suffering, ive been there.

whats keeps me playing idling and casual dungeon runs

tl:dr grit teeth through all of it since alot of content isnt really that enjoyable.

its not early 2ks anymore the groups that just wanna banter and chill dont exist anymore, I havent found any since then.

[SpiritedMare]

the groups that just wanna banter and chill dont exist anymore, I havent found any since then.

I find them almost every day in MSQDR, for what it's worth!

[Brandt_Nunh]

I think the last trial I did was one that definitely added to my general anxiety of playing with others. After each sprout had died; instead of rezing a single person; the high level players ignored us all and beat the boss. It's not fun to watch a boss fight from the floor and its crap behaviour that makes the community look really bad.

Healer main here. This isn't personal (at least for me). Rarely in trials will I hardcast raise because there's usually other damage going out and I just don't have time.

Sometimes we gotta prioritize what we're doing, especially in trials. Hell, I've spent time dead on the ground in newer content. I use that time to watch the mechanics so when I do get back up, I'm better prepared for what's next.

[LalafellDown]

The savage content and above is where I don’t go anymore. I would rather spend time having fun with another game than wait on others to learn the fight. I don’t feel like doing the extremes anymore because they’re not worth the time. I would like to do solo versions of those difficulties so I don’t have to wait on people.