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  1. #51
    Player
    AkaeiNox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    111
    Character
    Akaei Nox
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Well there is no sun from the 13th's moon either.



    There are stars though.
    (0)
    Last edited by AkaeiNox; 01-13-2023 at 05:37 AM.

  2. #52
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by JepMZ View Post
    It's already been explained ingame that Hydalyn is the Goddess of Stasis. In order to keep Zodiark in check, she had to have the astral nature so the moon just happens to be barren, like the First, because her powers lack umbral energies to balance it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Necrotica View Post
    Quick Google search is not showing anything, but what is the lore cause of Umbral wind?

    If the moon is/was housing Zodiark and a gigantic mother crystal equivalent of dark energy, it being the source of umbral weather could be interesting.
    We getting our Astrals and Umbrals mixed up again guys?
    Astral = Dark = Zodiark/Bahamut/13th
    Umbral = Light = Hydaelyn/First
    (4)

  3. #53
    Player
    dragoelete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    299
    Character
    Drago Xhula
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90
    Astral Elemental Lore

    Astral energy is the light-based polarity present in all six elements (see Chapter 4 of Essences & Permutations - A Treatise of the Six Elements). The opposite of Astral energy is Umbral energy. Astral energy can exist in all 6 elements, as demonstrated by the odd-numbered months of the Eorzean Calendar. Likewise, The Twelve associated with Astral energy are Halone (Ice), Thaliak (Water), Llymlaen (Wind), Byregot (Lightning), Azeyma (Fire), and Nophica (Earth). Astral energy is most heavily utilized by Disciples of Magic, such as the Thaumaturge.
    pulled right off gamer escape

    also umbral litterally takes from the latin word umbra which means shadow
    (0)
    Last edited by dragoelete; 01-13-2023 at 12:55 PM.

  4. #54
    Player
    Rannie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,079
    Character
    Rannie Lfey
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    We getting our Astrals and Umbrals mixed up again guys?
    Astral = Dark = Zodiark/Bahamut/13th
    Umbral = Light = Hydaelyn/First
    You are completely correct.

    for those that don't remember.
    All is said in Shadowbringers when Urianger explains Umbral and Astral to us in IL Mheg. Plus explained by the watcher in Endwalker when talking to him on what happened during the final days and with the loporrits when they're explaining the crystals and why nothing can really grow on the surface of the moon as well as why they need those giant Skittle crystals... All in rewatchable cutscenes from the Journal in the Inn room or, if you have it, as a furniture item in your room or house.

    The rewatchable portions are with the Watcher and Urianger...
    (3)
    Last edited by Rannie; 01-13-2023 at 02:39 PM.
    I have a secret to tell. From my electrical well. It's a simple message and I'm leaving out the whistles and bells. So the room must listen to me Filibuster vigilantly. My name is blue canary one note* spelled l-i-t-e. My story's infinite Like the Longines Symphonette it doesn't rest- TMBG Birdhouse in your Soul
    A huge THANK YOU!!!! For FINALLY selling the Meteor Survivor Polo on the store. AND a huge thanks to my friend who bought it for me while he was at Fan Fest!!! YES I finally have my POLO!!!

  5. #55
    Player Seraphor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4,620
    Character
    Seraphor Vhinasch
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by dragoelete View Post
    Astral Elemental Lore

    Astral energy is the light-based polarity present in all six elements (see Chapter 4 of Essences & Permutations - A Treatise of the Six Elements). The opposite of Astral energy is Umbral energy. Astral energy can exist in all 6 elements, as demonstrated by the odd-numbered months of the Eorzean Calendar. Likewise, The Twelve associated with Astral energy are Halone (Ice), Thaliak (Water), Llymlaen (Wind), Byregot (Lightning), Azeyma (Fire), and Nophica (Earth). Astral energy is most heavily utilized by Disciples of Magic, such as the Thaumaturge.
    pulled right off gamer escape

    also umbral litterally takes from the latin word umbra which means shadow
    Incorrect, as Rannie said, Urianger and The Watcher each retcon this "lore".

    Umbral is not dark simply because it has real world connotations with 'shadow', nor is Astral light simply because of the real world meaning of 'star'.
    These were misconceptions made by scholars on the Source, basically naming things on if something is literally 'bright' or 'dark'.

    The revelation came from Black Rose, and the conundrum of how 'dark magic' could trigger a 'flood of light'. Black Rose was considered 'Umbral' and it halted the flow of aether.

    Umbral is linked to stasis, and a stagnation of aether, which manifests as 'light' in huge quantities, because that aether isn't going anywhere, it's concentrated.
    While Astral is linked to energy and entropy, and this aligned with more dark magic and the void, because that aether is going everywhere, and dissipating rapidly leaving nothing in it's place, and thus an absence of aether is a signature of Astral alignments.

    Everything post Shadowbringers has supported this, for example Hydaelyn's EX totems being Umbral and Zodiark's Astral.

    If this offends your intellect, consider the following:
    Umbral: Light causes shadows, there is no shadow without a light source. A shadow is not simply the absence of light, it needs the light to cast it.
    Astral: Stars are pure entropy, burning fuel and kicking that energy out into space until they starve and die a cold death.
    (3)
    Last edited by Seraphor; 01-13-2023 at 09:06 PM.

  6. #56
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    It all stems from the fact that it's not actually how that twist works in Japanese. Synodic Scribe described it to me once and it's... honestly probably even more confusing than what we got and didn't exactly stay in my head because of it, which might be why they changed it, but it instead tries to go for the angle of the Scions realizing they were being overly prescriptive regarding what light and darkness could do.
    (3)

  7. #57
    Player
    YianKutku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    972
    Character
    Miyo Mohzolhi
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphor View Post
    Everything post Shadowbringers has supported this, for example Hydaelyn's EX totems being Umbral and Zodiark's Astral.
    Now I'm curious if they ever patched the debuff descriptions for Astral/Umbral Effect in Eden 7 (Eden's Verse Iconoclasm). There, the dark-coloured effect is called Umbral Effect, and the light-coloured effect is called Astral Effect.

    This caused me a few issues dealing with the mechanics.
    (0)

  8. #58
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    I kind of wish they never even brought up that information when they aren't/can't utilize it consistently due to the Source's general understanding of the elemental alignments being unchanged.
    (0)

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