PLD 6.3 opinions

[Rithy255]

Offensive Side of PLD Can't complain too much, rotation feels "ok" I don't think it's better then the old one, but if they made some adjustments to this new one I can say with certainty it would actually be something that I really like, I think Atonement, Goring blade need adjustments, I'd like to see holy spirits maybe holding up to 2 stacks but you get stacks a bit more faster (maybe by doing all atonements you get one), In general I'm happy it's pretty decent feels a lot better then DRK/WAR for me, Holy spirit feels so good to hold for sustain and ranged.

Divine veil change was good, I don't think it was bad or in need of changing, but it makes it a lot less annoying to use also effects you (which actually might be small but its still nice to have a self barrier on PLD), sure you can speak with healers but that doesn't take into account that a lot of people run PF's or play the game casually, it's more of a nice QOL more then anything, generally happy about the changes, would like at least the regen effect instead of the upfront heal effect as it's more useful, I'd personally make the barrier a bit stronger on warriors but also remove the upfront heal (prolly buff DRK/GNB'S raid wides aswell to like a 15%), but I think Passage would need to also change if PLD's veil is weaker.

Bulwark is like Camo or Dark Mind, can be situationally worse depending on the situation, but i generally think it's actually Pretty consistent because even if you don't block the DOT's of the tank buster You will mitigate the Buster itself, Holy Shelltron is also way more consistent, Bulwark is a Tanking CD that's been lacking on PLD and while it isn't the best one I think it's actually pretty great compared to something like Camo (Dark mind is likely the best one because most fights use magical).

Passage of arms likely won't be change, because "pretty animation" which is a big disappointment, theirs a argument that forming a cone around the PLD and snapshotting it is "unique" but that's just the bad type of Unique, I much rather have something like temperance even if it's like a 10% mitigation I rather that then it stay as it is.

Other stuff Please fix cover, Give shield bash something to do or remove it, make space for abilities by removing Intervention, Allow holy shelltron & Normal shelltron target other people, make Oath gauge based on 40 seconds to fill to 100 or something, IDM Hallowed ground remaining the longest if PLD's got the best utility and on par defensives as long as Invuls aren't really going to be overused I think it makes for a "downside".

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Other stuff Please fix cover, Give shield bash something to do or remove it, make space for abilities by removing Intervention, Allow holy shelltron & Normal shelltron target other people, make Oath gauge based on 40 seconds to fill to 100 or something, IDM Hallowed ground remaining the longest if PLD's got the best utility and on par defensives as long as Invuls aren't really going to be overused I think it makes for a "downside".

I'm sorry but your Intervention gripe is actually annoying. It's by far one of the best OT skills in the game, and one of it's strongest interactions is during content where double busters happen, allowing PLD to use Sheltron on themselves and throw an intervention on their co-tank, allowing their co-tank to share their short mit with the Paladin instead. Your suggestion neuters the kit, and seriously button bloat is not an excuse to get rid of it. Also the whole "we can't stand homogenisation" but then people asking for so many things to be homogenised it's just so....HUH?

If any of the oath gauge actions needing tossed in the trash is Cover, no contest. When it was as good as it was in SB, no iteration but that iteration will be even remotely good enough to any veteran Paladin player, without making the skill outright broken, tbh, Cover had its day, but it's not needed, and these fringe cases of oh I can cover the healer to save a run, more often than, will fall flat on it's face and you take double damage from a raidwide die, and the healer gets auto'd and just straight up dies. Sure you will get the odd run where it is successful but it's so niche that it's gathering dust more often than not.

[Rithy255]

I'm sorry but your Intervention gripe is actually annoying. It's by far one of the best OT skills in the game, and one of it's strongest interactions is during content where double busters happen, allowing PLD to use Sheltron on themselves and throw an intervention on their co-tank, allowing their co-tank to share their short mit with the Paladin instead. Your suggestion neuters the kit, and seriously button bloat is not an excuse to get rid of it. Also the whole "we can't stand homogenisation" but then people asking for so many things to be homogenised it's just so....HUH?

If any of the oath gauge actions needing tossed in the trash is Cover, no contest. When it was as good as it was in SB, no iteration but that iteration will be even remotely good enough to any veteran Paladin player, without making the skill outright broken, tbh, Cover had its day, but it's not needed, and these fringe cases of oh I can cover the healer to save a run, more often than, will fall flat on it's face and you take double damage from a raidwide die, and the healer gets auto'd and just straight up dies. Sure you will get the odd run where it is successful but it's so niche that it's gathering dust more often than not.

If I was to remove Intervention I'd make Shelltron on 2/3 seconds so it retains it's "double tank buster" use, I personally don't see how that would change PLD in anyway and it would reduce button bloat easily.

its not homogenisation Intervention is just slightly worse holy shelltron for a friend right now lol (other then being able to use it on double tank busters)

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

If I was to remove Intervention I'd make Shelltron on 2/3 seconds so it retains it's "double tank buster" use, I personally don't see how that would change PLD in anyway and it would reduce button bloat easily.

its not homogenisation Intervention is just slightly worse holy shelltron for a friend right now lol (other then being able to use it on double tank busters)

I mean buffed Intervention is around the same as Holy Sheltron, and on double busters, you'll always have a buffed Intervention, rest of the time, it's literally whatever.

[Rithy255]

I mean buffed Intervention is around the same as Holy Sheltron, and on double busters, you'll always have a buffed Intervention, rest of the time, it's literally whatever.

I mean you're not wrong in most cases you would be buffing your intervention but it shouldn't really need to require that gimmick to be on par with your own personal CD, while War and Gunbreaker actually get benefits from using it on a friend, I just don't feel like intervention is a needed in PLD's kit if we made Shellton targetable, save some much needed space without removing anything, now I wouldn't mind some things being removed but I feel like eitherway just getting intervention off the hotbar for exchange of Shelltron/holy shelltron having a small recast timer (2-3 seconds) and being able to still have it's nice double tank buster utility.

I mean it's something i don't really care all too much about but I had one too many buttons with bulwark so i had to move a lot around.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

I mean you're not wrong in most cases you would be buffing your intervention but it shouldn't really need to require that gimmick to be on par with your own personal CD, while War and Gunbreaker actually get benefits from using it on a friend, I just don't feel like intervention is a needed in PLD's kit if we made Shellton targetable, save some much needed space without removing anything, now I wouldn't mind some things being removed but I feel like eitherway just getting intervention off the hotbar for exchange of Shelltron/holy shelltron having a small recast timer (2-3 seconds) and being able to still have it's nice double tank buster utility.

I mean it's something i don't really care all too much about but I had one too many buttons with bulwark so i had to move a lot around.

There is also the thing where you wouldn't actually save any hotbar space since most still have at least a targetting macro on their hotbar for faster reactions than having to click the person like so:

/ac "Intervention" <2>
/micon "Intervention"

So I don't really see what your change would actually accomplish.

[Rithy255]

There is also the thing where you wouldn't actually save any hotbar space since most still have at least a targetting macro on their hotbar for faster reactions than having to click the person like so:

/ac "Intervention" <2>
/micon "Intervention"

So I don't really see what your change would actually accomplish.

And it's useful to still have intervention not dedicated to a single target, I have a macro and the action both seperately so if I need to throw a intervention on the other tank I can just by pressing my keyboard without targeting, but I also have intervention on my hotbar so i can I use it on other party members if they need 1. Some mitigation 2. regen on a target to save a healer cd.

I'm pretty sure you should still keep a non macro version of intervention on your hotbar.

EDIT: also don't know what you're trying to accomplish by defending a ability that just takes up space, when I've explained how we could remove it and PLD would still be the same.

[Gserpent]

I'm sorry but your Intervention gripe is actually annoying. It's by far one of the best OT skills in the game, and one of it's strongest interactions is during content where double busters happen, allowing PLD to use Sheltron on themselves and throw an intervention on their co-tank, allowing their co-tank to share their short mit with the Paladin instead. Your suggestion neuters the kit, and seriously button bloat is not an excuse to get rid of it. Also the whole "we can't stand homogenisation" but then people asking for so many things to be homogenised it's just so....HUH?

That wasn't a strength, that was a liability because you had to do that gimmicky Sheltron+Intervention switcheroo because PLD couldn't block the bleed portion of the tankbuster. Your PLD either died or forced GCD healing if you didn't do that. I'm actually wondering if PLD will end up being overtuned, defensively, now that they will no longer require the buddy skill to survive tankbusters.

Homogeneity among DPS cycles is what people hate, especially when that comes at the cost of class fantasy. People *don't* hate homogeneity among defensive kits, because that's the fastest way to reach legitimate "if you don't take this class you're griefing your team" scenarios.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

That wasn't a strength, that was a liability because you had to do that gimmicky Sheltron+Intervention switcheroo because PLD couldn't block the bleed portion of the tankbuster. Your PLD either died or forced GCD healing if you didn't do that. I'm actually wondering if PLD will end up being overtuned, defensively, now that they will no longer require the buddy skill to survive tankbusters.

Homogeneity among DPS cycles is what people hate, especially when that comes at the cost of class fantasy. People *don't* hate homogeneity among defensive kits, because that's the fastest way to reach legitimate "if you don't take this class you're griefing your team" scenarios.

Actually, that was a thing done in ShB, by tanks that actually had a clue what they were doing, long before bleeds where you would swap short mits with each other.

You say that, but I've seen plenty of people bitch about Rampart as a role action instead of every job having their own version, or people complained that 3 out of the 4, 30% mits were the exact same, and had no flavour apart from Warrior's Vengeance and its small potency spikes from physical attacks, so think you wrong on that account too. There was also people memeing on calling the reworked Veil, Shake it Off 2.0, even though Shake was a copy pasta of veil but slightly different, but people like to mis-remember things.

[Gserpent]

Actually, that was a thing done in ShB, by tanks that actually had a clue what they were doing, long before bleeds where you would swap short mits with each other.

You say that, but I've seen plenty of people bitch about Rampart as a role action instead of every job having their own version, or people complained that 3 out of the 4, 30% mits were the exact same, and had no flavour apart from Warrior's Vengeance and its small potency spikes from physical attacks, so think you wrong on that account too. There was also people memeing on calling the reworked Veil, Shake it Off 2.0, even though Shake was a copy pasta of veil but slightly different, but people like to mis-remember things.

That was most certainly not a thing done by tanks in ShB because in ShB you just either invuln'd or just kitchen sink'd the tankbusters. You're talking out your ass.