What are the gods for?

[Elissar]

My two cents
Twelve were a mere expression of natural forces within our humanity and nature/star (water, fire, moon, time, sun, will to build, will to fight, will to travel, will to love, etc).

Their forms is a mere representation of our culture and they are heavily influenced by dynamis which limit their action upon our aether composed world.

I'd sleep happy with such explanation tbh, better than anything heavily influenced by ascians..again. I don't believe they have enough time to develop past characters to make us care about their "transformation" or the consequences of their choices.



In any case, i hope they stay with us for a while instead of being discarded like a filler. I'm still waiting for some 'candy' based on our deity btw.

[sidurgu-12]

My two cents
Twelve were a mere expression of natural forces within our humanity and nature/star (water, fire, moon, time, sun, will to build, will to fight, will to travel, will to love, etc).

Their forms is a mere representation of our culture and they are heavily influenced by dynamis which limit their action upon our aether composed world.

I'd sleep happy with such explanation tbh, better than anything heavily influenced by ascians..again. I don't believe they have enough time to develop past characters to make us care about their "transformation" or the consequences of their choices.



In any case, i hope they stay with us for a while instead of being discarded like a filler. I'm still waiting for some 'candy' based on our deity btw.

Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

[Cleretic]

Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

[sidurgu-12]

Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

Thats true. Now that i think about it in every new zone we go to beliefs are one of the first things talked about and there are quest chains exploring various aspects of it, plus a groups religious sriptures played a roll in saving them.

[WhiteArchmage]

Keep in mind that we generally know the inclinations of the writers at this point, and they aren't so broadly and brutally anti-theistic. I'd actually say the game's overall approach to religion and deities as refreshingly kind and mature, actually; on top of all of the extant deities we've ever met (including Hydelyn and Zodiark) serving very crucial roles in-universe to the point where their losses are/would be keenly felt, the game has a very healthy view of the importance of religion and faith in a society, while recognizing the dangers of (and non-faith-based causes of) extremism. The game suddenly going 'WE HAVE NO NEED FOR GODS, BEGONE' would be a betrayal of its long-held principles. ...as well as being really hard to do in the span of exactly one alliance raid.

So funnily enough, the question posed in the thread title has an answer, and it's 'quite a lot, actually, at least in this universe'.

I actually quite like the game's stance of religion, the good and the bad that can come off it, how it can bring people together but also pit them against one another; how it can doom some people to despair and save others from it...

I do fear Myths will end up with "the gods go away, but humanity can still believe in them." And I'd be sad if they fade away because we JUST met them. Especially with the revelations this patch, there's so much I'd like to ask them.

In short, make the Twelve out next Trust buddies plz an ty (mostly joking but wouldn't that be fun?).

[Cleretic]

I actually quite like the game's stance of religion, the good and the bad that can come off it, how it can bring people together but also pit them against one another; how it can doom some people to despair and save others from it...

I do fear Myths will end up with "the gods go away, but humanity can still believe in them." And I'd be sad if they fade away because we JUST met them. Especially with the revelations this patch, there's so much I'd like to ask them.

In short, make the Twelve out next Trust buddies plz an ty (mostly joking but wouldn't that be fun?).

I very much doubt the gods are going to go away, not just because there isn't an air of finality about that at all. The Twelve serve a really important ongoing purpose, and there is not one thing suggesting that they intend to stop.

Deryk's whole thing does seem to be a transience and willingness to move on when it comes to it, but that's rather different, he's basically just saying that it's natural people move on and have different stories. He's essentially saying that he's only around for one questline, and that's okay. From a more meta perspective, he's sort of speaking to something Yoshi-P's said, that the game's designed so that people can just leave if they don't want to be playing right now.

The whole 'Deryk is Oschon' thing is one I feel weirdly conflicted about. On one hand, all the signs seem to be pointing there... but all those signs are actually really subtle unless you're the kind of nerd that has Oschon's whole deal memorized. I genuinely have no idea what it looks like to someone that's NOT self-selecting for these sorts of discussions, and the game typically isn't written with people like us as the primary audience. Like, is Deryk suspicious to normal people? Because if he's not then it would probably feel about out of nowhere for him to suddenly reveal himself as a god, right?

Also, speaking of Trusts, Nymeia's 'instant win if a fight lasts a certain time' isn't too far off of how Trusts actually work mechanically, so... yeah, that might kinda work.

[Iscah]

The whole 'Deryk is Oschon' thing is one I feel weirdly conflicted about. On one hand, all the signs seem to be pointing there... but all those signs are actually really subtle unless you're the kind of nerd that has Oschon's whole deal memorized.

Some of the Oschon-specific hints are subtle, but I think this second chapter brings a number of hints – with no external lore familiarity required – that Deryk might be "a god", and once the monument inscription is read, it's not hard to look at the remaining options and conclude that Oschon's description fits Deryk.

[Elissar]

Im afraid theyre gonna go the "humanity no longer need gods" despite the twelve being a widespread religion. I really hope not...But im a closet pessimist lol.

I hope not! I would like to be more...cautiously optimistic lol. If they get rid of the Twelve, they will put the Scions/WoL above anything else and we may not see Eorzea with the same mystique aura. Unfortunately we have some constancy in the FFXIV lore: monarchy is bad, a republic of equals is better and democracy above all (Ul'dah attempt, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo...), such fact makes me apprehensive about Myths of the Realm conclusion.

Thats true. Now that i think about it in every new zone we go to beliefs are one of the first things talked about and there are quest chains exploring various aspects of it, plus a groups religious sriptures played a roll in saving them.

They handled radz-at-han perfectly.

[Cleretic]

Unfortunately we have some constancy in the FFXIV lore: monarchy is bad, a republic of equals is better and democracy above all (Ul'dah attempt, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo...), such fact makes me apprehensive about Myths of the Realm conclusion.

Not quite. Or rather, generally correct but the mindset at play is that things are rarely that simple. Democracy's great and especially appealing to a country trying to distance itself from an unequal past, but there's perfectly understandable reasons why a country either wouldn't pursue it at all (see: Doma generally liking Hien's leadership), would fail to transition into it (see: Ul'dah's Syndicate clinging to power), or would reject it once they have it (see: Garlemald embracing authoritarianism, although I still have problems with this one). And even when you have democracy, let's not pretend that it doesn't have any problems (see: Sharlayan).

I'd generally summarize FFXIV's outlook politically as 'overthrowing a terrible government is good, but you'd better have a good plan and alternative'. And this generally only crosses over with its approach on religion--which I've mentioned I mostly really like and respect--in cases of theocracies like Gridania and Ishgard.