The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Renathras]

It's not in bad faith! I'm trying to communicate genuine feelings to you and you are dismissing them as an attack on your character when this is not the case. Maybe your logic just isn't as sound as you think it is.

See?

Well, no, I suppose you don't.

What makes it bad faith is you clearly don't understand a position, and even realize you don't. But instead of TRYING, you insist that the position doesn't exist and is a worse position pretending to be a different position than it is. That is, that NO ONE actually LIKES the current model, they're just lazy slackers/etc that are saying they like it because they don't want to be outted as lazy slackers/etc.

Even when someone tells you that isn't it, you insist that it is.

Now you're insisting that "logic" makes it so because you can't understand it, and to you, that seems to mean that it's not logical. Enjoyment is a subjective thing. There's no logic to why some people like vanilla and others like chocolate. It's not an objective thing if a person enjoys something. If they do, you should ask them why. And when they tell you, you should believe them, not insist that they can't possibly be telling the truth.

Can you cite evidence proving or strongly supporting this?

THIS is also bad faith and snippy. You want me to provide evidence for an opinion? That we don't agree what "sorry state" is?

Or do you want me to provide evidence many players think the current healing is in a fantastic state? (In which case maybe you should only quote that part)

I'd point out, as I already did, that in other venues, you have a lot of discussions about healers and people saying they enjoy healers as they currently exist. Not I used the word "many" (as in, hundreds or thousands) not "most". There's no real way to tell which is the majority position. But if even 20% of people felt this way, that should be sufficient in a game with 4 (5 if we reinstate nAST) healers for 1 to suit them.

Would it kill you to at least have an ounce of humility rather than responding to everything

I don't respond to "everything" with that. In fact, that's the first time I've given that specific response.

And no, that isn't what a bad faith argument looks like - what you've been doing is what a bad faith argument looks like. You're trying to turn the insult around on me now because you were called out.

ALL of my first responses to you WERE with humility. I tried a half dozen times in this threat to explain to you what you're not getting - what you now admit that you don't understand - so that you could get it and could understand it. Each of those times, it was not with some "radiance" of "RIGHT" opinion. Look back through my replies to you in this thread. Look hard at them. I have many times said that some people think this, some think that. That not everyone agrees. That there are differing positions in each camp. I think in my first post in this string of posts I gave something like 6+ different reasons and positions people have on healing in the game right now and what they'd like. It was my original point: That there are a lot of different positions on the matter and not everyone agrees.

I didn't say that no one thinks as you do. I said there are other ways that people think than the way you're insisting they must. It's you insisting they must over and over again in the face of that that has be talking down to you now, because all you had to do, at ANY point in this discussion, is say "Well, yeah, I guess there are other opinions out there."

That's literally it. To simply acknowledge that positions exist other than "want more DPS buttons" or "want to be lazy".

It's you refusing to do that over and over and over again, and doing so in a really bad faith way, that had me post before saying I wasn't planning to respond to you anymore. And I may not here. I thought maybe you were amenable to listening now, but clearly I was mistaken...

.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be discourteous, so I'm just going to stop replying to your posts because there seems to be no other way to get through to you that is still courteous. So...yeah, that's that, I suppose.