Paladin Updates

[Aceofspades]

Well as you state, we are inconsistant with that fight, Ifrit is a Decent fight in wich we can consistantly get the same speed of kill. but reguardless, i dont see a issue with holding hate, or the issue with useing Ifrit as a test. Even if it took my group 30 mins to kill what is it to you? as long as the results support what i just posted nothing you just stated has an effect on what i stated. IF anything it tells me that fight needs a stronger tank who can support HP control on close range DD jobs . PLD not only holds hate fine in a none supportive role but given the opertunity to give support (aoe heals, aoe regen, aoe rampart, cover when needed, holy sucor, aoe stone skin) i can only see it as being able to keep hate even better.... 0.o what was the point of your post again?

[Aceofspades]

" PS: Where do you get your numbers of WAR getting so much more dmg then a PLD? He doesn't...plus if you're using the same tank equip on PLD AND WAR (Ifrit Gear????), the only option would be Sentinels, or Cobalts Equip, which will make the WAR HP Pool still an easy 800HP+ more then PLDs "

Negative big guy, I like Ifrit as a test because if you dont adress the magic attack and physical attack portions of the fight your gona take heavy damage from either if not both ends, seeing how PLD is op on the Physical damage defelction I op my gear twards fire resist the result is 22k ish damage in a 9 min fight. Now maybe thats not good enough for you but no matter how you stack the gear , stats or skill of player , fact is PLD still holds enough hate to do as well as WAR and further more brings damage deflection , party support and and self heals/buffs to the fight where as WAR only brings hate control higher HP and moderate dd... its a simple decision between pros and cons, frankly pld has more pros then WAR in my book, but that may be just the way I play PLD .

[TirionCrey]

" PS: Where do you get your numbers of WAR getting so much more dmg then a PLD? He doesn't...plus if you're using the same tank equip on PLD AND WAR (Ifrit Gear????), the only option would be Sentinels, or Cobalts Equip, which will make the WAR HP Pool still an easy 800HP+ more then PLDs "

Negative big guy, I like Ifrit as a test because if you dont adress the magic attack and physical attack portions of the fight your gona take heavy damage from either if not both ends, seeing how PLD is op on the Physical damage defelction I op my gear twards fire resist the result is 22k ish damage in a 9 min fight. Now maybe thats not good enough for you but no matter how you stack the gear , stats or skill of player , fact is PLD still holds enough hate to do as well as WAR and further more brings damage deflection , party support and and self heals/buffs to the fight where as WAR only brings hate control higher HP and moderate dd... its a simple decision between pros and cons, frankly pld has more pros then WAR in my book, but that may be just the way I play PLD .

My point is that you can't compare you holding hate against mediocre DDs as "test" of how enmity on PLD is just fine, when he would lose hate on DDs that actually DD way more/better then your DDs.

You don't compare classes at mediocre performance, you compare classes at "best possible" performance. Which in fact shows a PLD with "best possible" skill, won't hold hate against a "best possible" DD(aka MNKs, since they are the best DDs right now), while a WAR can (and it's even close for him)

You are concluding from yourself to others and I'm sorry, no matter how stuck up this might sound, your group seems to be medicore(based on the numbers you posted).

We are arguing about how PLD hate generation sucks compared to WAR based on the view of "everyone performing at max lvl", while for you the only thing that counts is that you hold hate...which is only possible cause your DDs are not playing at max lvl.

[Phobos]

Aceofspades is not helping our case for bringing PLD up to where WAR is for tanking...

[Arcell]

" PS: Where do you get your numbers of WAR getting so much more dmg then a PLD? He doesn't...plus if you're using the same tank equip on PLD AND WAR (Ifrit Gear????), the only option would be Sentinels, or Cobalts Equip, which will make the WAR HP Pool still an easy 800HP+ more then PLDs "

Negative big guy, I like Ifrit as a test because if you dont adress the magic attack and physical attack portions of the fight your gona take heavy damage from either if not both ends, seeing how PLD is op on the Physical damage defelction I op my gear twards fire resist the result is 22k ish damage in a 9 min fight. Now maybe thats not good enough for you but no matter how you stack the gear , stats or skill of player , fact is PLD still holds enough hate to do as well as WAR and further more brings damage deflection , party support and and self heals/buffs to the fight where as WAR only brings hate control higher HP and moderate dd... its a simple decision between pros and cons, frankly pld has more pros then WAR in my book, but that may be just the way I play PLD .

Theoretically, PLD offers more damage deflection. In reality, a Warrior takes less damage from a parry (0 on full parry) than Paladin does on a block.

What needs to be adjusted are defense/m.evasion values and the shield needs to actually matter. Block mitigation is nearly non-existent against bosses outside of Aegis Boon, that shouldn't happen. The way defense and m.evasion are calculated in has some kind of inherent flaw that makes them pretty much worthless against enemies past a certain level above you (most bosses). This means that HP is pretty much king on that front and guess who has more HP? WAR. During that Buffalo test we did last night Onrush took the PLD into red and the WAR into yellow health. He hardly noticed the damage to be honest lol.

A good test of enmity holding ability is to go against someone who is intentionally trying to take hate, like a WAR or BLM. The fight also has to last a decent amount of time, which is why we chose Buffalo.

[SionDurant]

Give us mp regen utilities, access to blessed mind and shroud of the saints maybe with a trait that it increases enmity instead of takes away. And change our primary dd stat to VIT or DEX and there we go.

[Reinheart]

Gonna be too good if they do this for all jobs but I kind of wanted to see some abilities/actions from Gladiator be upgraded when using the Job.

Like
Flash while on PLD increases more enmity than when on GLA
Outmaneuver while on PLD restores more MP than when on GLA
Sentinel while on PLD grants AOE effect to nearby players (target must be within 8 yalms)

[Alerith]

"If you're playing PLD right, it should feel like this:

Sentinel > Aegis Boon > War Drum > Phalanx > Rampart > Bloodbath > Spirit's Within > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Goring Blade"

Just curious, is that the actual order in wich you perform those abilities?

This is the ideal order to use your abilities if they are all up and you have 1750 TP. (Assuming no misses)

By Sentinel's effect, while it's active, enmity is increased for all your abilities. So enmity is increased across this entire ability string if you use sentinel first.

Aegis Boon allows for a 100% for sure shield block on the next physical attack or TP ability. Because of that, you can then War Drum right after for enmity as well as Phalanx to begin your first combo.

Assuming Phalanx hits, you then have enough time to use Bloodbath (because you'll likely take some damage before your next WS) then Rampart for an enmity boost before using Spirit's Within for damage and enmity.

If you had enough TP when you started the ability string, you can now use Fast Blade followed by Savage Blade, then you run through your enemy to the rear and use Goring Blade for damage and bleeding.

Tack Flash and Divine Veil onto the end and you'll be golden.

[Aceofspades]

This is the ideal order to use your abilities if they are all up and you have 1750 TP. (Assuming no misses)

By Sentinel's effect, while it's active, enmity is increased for all your abilities. So enmity is increased across this entire ability string if you use sentinel first.

Aegis Boon allows for a 100% for sure shield block on the next physical attack or TP ability. Because of that, you can then War Drum right after for enmity as well as Phalanx to begin your first combo.

Assuming Phalanx hits, you then have enough time to use Bloodbath (because you'll likely take some damage before your next WS) then Rampart for an enmity boost before using Spirit's Within for damage and enmity.

If you had enough TP when you started the ability string, you can now use Fast Blade followed by Savage Blade, then you run through your enemy to the rear and use Goring Blade for damage and bleeding.

Tack Flash and Divine Veil onto the end and you'll be golden.

I dont intend to sound like a smart ass or anything , but, I now understand why you have some hate controll issues. If i may be soo bold and put up some sequences in wich you may want to try

Sentinel > Aegis Boon > Flash > Voke > Phalanx > Spirit's Within >War Drum (keep in mind if you already have enough tp for war drum and or phalanx i would use those first but otherwise this set up buys you a few seconds to build a bit of tp while keeping all your hate moves inside that 10 second buff timer of Sentinel.)

Rampart dose build hate but a few things to know, only realy works if you use it and multiple people get it, the more people who get the buff the greater the hate generation and it dosent get better with sent.

Also AOE cures (when ever you can, helps to have that on a macro) also gens hate realy well, but the heal must actually regen HP back to the target/s HP bar

as far as the other weapon skills , the only other one that is designed to gen hate and has been improved for doing soo is
fast blade > flat blade. true this one dosent do much damage at all but it has fast cool down times and very low tp requirements soo that helps with being able to spam it ALOT , also anytime you can spam sheild bash ( after having done your combos) it also genrates hate.

its a bit to have to do , wich is why i put self cures on macros , but once you do that, hate gen, damage deflection and self cures are too easy to not have to do, your cartoon (altho funny as hell) is not what PLD "should feel like" . If done correctly PLD should feel like a Pianist playing a song, alot of button mashing sure, but if done with ryme and reason, and timing it gose smoothly and damage deflection is outstanding. Hate control is up to par and self heals (when needed ) are always available.

[Aceofspades]

oh and somthing i forgot, not sure if its devine veil or not, but it apears as tho my block rate DRAMTICLY increases with devine veil, so if you did not get either war drum or phlanax off with ageis boon, just pop devine veil and the option should open up