Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Guntank81]

Damage meters, such as those provided by FFLogs, can create an atmosphere of competition and toxicity within the Final Fantasy XIV community. While it is true that a small percentage of players utilize these tools, their impact can be disproportionately felt by those who do not wish to participate in this type of environment.

Instead of relying on external metrics to measure success, it is important to focus on improving one's own skills and abilities within the game. One possible way to do this besides doing raids constantly and learning your rotations, double weaving and timing the pulls, SE should/could add solo challenge dungeons specifically designed to hone these skills.

Overall, it is essential to prioritize inclusivity and enjoyment for all players, rather than catering to the desires of a select few who may be more interested in performance metrics.
Finally, you don't need Damage meters to complete any content in this game.

[FireMage]

Damage meters, such as those provided by FFLogs, can create an atmosphere of competition and toxicity within the Final Fantasy XIV community. While it is true that a small percentage of players utilize these tools, their impact can be disproportionately felt by those who do not wish to participate in this type of environment.

The environment is any content with other people. This is a MMO last I checked. Maybe instead people should play something else if they aren't going to perform at the level they should be

[Bobby66]

Damage meters, such as those provided by FFLogs, can create an atmosphere of competition and toxicity within the Final Fantasy XIV community. While it is true that a small percentage of players utilize these tools, their impact can be disproportionately felt by those who do not wish to participate in this type of environment.

Instead of relying on external metrics to measure success, it is important to focus on improving one's own skills and abilities within the game. One possible way to do this besides doing raids constantly and learning your rotations, double weaving and timing the pulls, SE should/could add solo challenge dungeons specifically designed to hone these skills.

Overall, it is essential to prioritize inclusivity and enjoyment for all players, rather than catering to the desires of a select few who may be more interested in performance metrics.
Finally, you don't need Damage meters to complete any content in this game.

So is completion of content the only metric that matters? Does that mean a group should musle through content even those they have a player that is objectively not performing? At the core I feel this is the difference between WoW and FFXIV, one general competence is expected to a certain degree, while in FFXIV it is a surprise. I do not think we should be promote the concept of only metric that matters is clearing the fight in itself. This mindset promotes leeching as an acceptable form of play.

[Kaurhz]

If it was used as a means to objectively show that a person was not performing to adequate standard would you have an issue? For the most part outside if outliers I am sure we could all agree while performing mechanics the DPS order should be DPS role Tanks, then healers?

If a DPs role is on the bottom of the chart would it be toxic in itself to point out that fact? If someone were to say in an non aggressive or hostile matter that the person has underperformed from a objectice metric and thus will be removed, what is toxic about this? They were playing poorly I do not think anyone can say a dps being on the bottom of the charts is good play outside of a few outliers. People for the most part would acknowledge those outliers.

If someone is hostile then you are free to report. This is the only aspect outside of the removal of.PVP chat where the community was a proactive approach to harassment instead of reactive like every other aspect of the game.

The issue is not with the underlying message being delivered to players, the issue would be the 'tone', or 'form' that this message takes on. Simply telling players that you don't think they're suitable to the party due to not performing proportionately to other members of the group is in a whole different league to telling people they're crap, that they're garbage, or taking on a condescending attitude by using some arbitrary derogatory term.

I would also argue the context of where this message is being delivered matters equally. Unless you're actively participating with the person underperforming then the comment is irrelevant and serves absolutely no purpose, most especially when the sole purpose is used thinly to dismiss rather than judge the merit, or lack thereof of the comment. Or in this case simply used as a thinly veiled attempt to be disrespectful on the forum.

In this regard, some people to an exemplary standard show precisely why parsing within a community has a poor stigma amongst players.

[Mikey_R]

Damage meters, such as those provided by FFLogs, can create an atmosphere of competition and toxicity within the Final Fantasy XIV community. While it is true that a small percentage of players utilize these tools, their impact can be disproportionately felt by those who do not wish to participate in this type of environment.

Instead of relying on external metrics to measure success, it is important to focus on improving one's own skills and abilities within the game. One possible way to do this besides doing raids constantly and learning your rotations, double weaving and timing the pulls, SE should/could add solo challenge dungeons specifically designed to hone these skills.

Overall, it is essential to prioritize inclusivity and enjoyment for all players, rather than catering to the desires of a select few who may be more interested in performance metrics.
Finally, you don't need Damage meters to complete any content in this game.

The thing is, honing ones own skill can only go so far in clearing content. You can be the best player, but if the other 7 aren't pulling their weight, you aren't going to clear (only talking about EX+ content here). You know you are good enough, you have done these challenging dungeons after all, however, you don't know where the weak link is in the party that is preventing the group from clearing.

Going further. If you made a PF and it couldn't clear the fight. How do you know who is being the weak link? Noone died, noone messed up mechanics, so it is down to rotation. However, you can't keep an eye on everyone whilst doing your own rotation AND focus on the fight to work out who isn't doing their rotation properly (this is assuming you have knowledge of every job's rotation in the first place). So, what do you do? You can disband and start again, leaving RNG up to chance to get a new group of people that can clear, however, if you have a parser, you can see where the weak link is and just replace that member, saving time for everyone. You can also tell that person, look, you aren't ready for this content, get better and come back later.

As I have said in the past, you can tell where people mess up and who messed up, except in the metric that matters most.

[VelKallor]

Bobby: I will be brief.

The Arthars incident some months ago , his subsequent deserved suspension, is your answer. His behaviour that night, his harassment and PUBLIC abuse of a player is all the proof I need that YoshiPs stance is correct.

Parsers enable, and encourage, toxic abusive behaviour and attitudes.

That is my final stance and my position on the matter.

Maybe instead people should play something else if they aren't going to perform at the level they should be

By whose standards?

Yours?

I dont think so.

[FireMage]

Bobby: I will be brief.

The Arthars incident some months ago , his subsequent deserved suspension, is your answer. His behaviour that night, his harassment and PUBLIC abuse of a player is all the proof I need that YoshiPs stance is correct.

Parsers enable, and encourage, toxic abusive behaviour and attitudes.

That is my final stance and my position on the matter.



By whose standards?

Yours?

I dont think so.

Mine are correct. This is a cooperative game, to be a burden is to be toxic

[Ivtrix]

The thing is, honing ones own skill can only go so far in clearing content. You can be the best player, but if the other 7 aren't pulling their weight, you aren't going to clear (only talking about EX+ content here). You know you are good enough, you have done these challenging dungeons after all, however, you don't know where the weak link is in the party that is preventing the group from clearing.

Going further. If you made a PF and it couldn't clear the fight. How do you know who is being the weak link? Noone died, noone messed up mechanics, so it is down to rotation. However, you can't keep an eye on everyone whilst doing your own rotation AND focus on the fight to work out who isn't doing their rotation properly (this is assuming you have knowledge of every job's rotation in the first place). So, what do you do? You can disband and start again, leaving RNG up to chance to get a new group of people that can clear, however, if you have a parser, you can see where the weak link is and just replace that member, saving time for everyone. You can also tell that person, look, you aren't ready for this content, get better and come back later.

As I have said in the past, you can tell where people mess up and who messed up, except in the metric that matters most.

Why are you putting up with 7 players who are not prepared for the content is the better question?

Fostering player growth is encouraged but never mandatory.

The onus is on you to curate your own experience. Theres nothing wrong with not wanting to play with bad players. If you arnt happy with the groups performance, you free to network to find players you wish to play with to ensure success. Do you not have the tact to remove yourself from a situation you know will frustrate you?

[Mikey_R]

By whose standards?

Yours?

I dont think so.

We can use the dev standards. For dungeons, if your party clears in more than 25 minutes, you are doing worse than if you had just queued with NPCs, who are, by design, meant to be worse than actual, real players. Considering players can clear dungeons in <15 mins, 25 mins is a really low bar for a standard.

For EX+ content, if you fail the fight enrage, you haven't met the standards the devs have set out for the fight. Take into account the Devs will have a certain DPS value for each job and they will balance the fight DPS around that.

[Mikey_R]

Why are you putting up with 7 players who are not prepared for the content is the better question?

Fostering player growth is encouraged but never mandatory.

The onus is on you to curate your own experience. Theres nothing wrong with not wanting to play with bad players. If you arnt happy with the groups performance, you free to network to find players you wish to play with to ensure success. Do you not have the tact to remove yourself from a situation you know will frustrate you?

Just to be clear, these aren't my personal experiences. I do have players I can rely on to do content with. However, this is not about me, this is about the community at large.

Not everyone has the luxury of a group of players who you can clear content with, let alone a group of players who might all want to do the content at the same time. It is fine saying, just make your own group, however, it is not a solution that is always available, hence why PF is where you need to turn to.

Now, player growth is not mandatory, no, however, you are still expected to have a certain level for a certain piece of content. However, the game has no way of determining if you are ready for it (SSS has been notoriously horrible for this) and, unless someone gives them a reality check, they will continue to perform not at the level that the content is designed for and potentially, never improve.