Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Johners]

Also unless Im reading that graph incorrectly, the game still has players retaining with the numbers still being greater than the downtime numbers in ShB.

The very end of that graph is 26k concurrent players on Steam. Sure, there's the standalone PC version from Square Enix directly as well as the PlayStation version, but I suspect the trend is the same there as well. Limsa and other capital cities don't feel as busy as they were. Roulette queues are just that bit longer and even places like Eureka don't feel as they were six months ago.

There are some mitigating factors to this which includes the game people left, World of Warcraft, have a great new expansion and as of yesterday, giving us the roadmap for 2023's content updates which looks really good. Certainly feels like WoW players are going to get a ton more content next year than FFXIV players will be getting.

[Thaciscokidd]

Snip

While I agree with you that WoW is getting content. But its not any more or less than what is here.

This is just like after WoD when they cut out a whole raid tier and had a roadmap to show people that they haven't changed. Just like WoD SL had a janky patch cadence and this is to reassure WoW player that its not a repeat of Shadowlands, a needed move. Its a win for WoW and a win for those who don't want WoW stuff invading here. It will make CBU III have to make better stuff to entice those players to come over here which is a good thing.

My personal time in DF has been good but conversely a lot of from players returning, constant played through SL, and players who were introduced to MMO's through XiV and are trying WoW for the first time will discuss FF XiV lore on good terms while farming(and in the Vault of the Incarnates raid local channel) in good terms. The exodus had made even the hardcore WoW mainstays realize that there are other games as good as WoW out there and that is good for WoW, XiV, ESO, DQX, SWToR, and basically the MMO market as a whole.

[Johners]

Snip for characters

I'd say the opposite is true in regards to the exodus, at least from people I know. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes. XIV has a great story but many systems in the end game are quite shallow beyond an initial set of rewards (and if you don't want to do excessive grinding of every relic or getting achievements that require 1000s of collectibles turned in, for example). GW2 and other MMOs, while they've survived, have their own content cycles and ultimately their own quirks.

It's easy to pick on FFXIV and the community for selling the game as the best thing since sliced bread... but when you actually get past that initial learning curve and new player experience/feeling, you soon seen the flaws and areas of contention between developer and player. Class reworks are a strong area in which SE make changes that seemingly piss everyone off. Housing systems and various issues around it are a well beaten horse at this stage. Even the underlying server infrastructure and limitations placed on the game due to it are tired discussions at this stage. Any Viera or Hrothgar hat enjoyers in chat? The only advantage XIV has is age in that it's not yet reached the stage in which players just get aggressive towards the developers for repeat failing which is pretty much identical to WoW when it was at the same stage in it's lifecycle. If I had to make a prediction, long standing issues are only going to drive more toxicity between the developers and players of this game in the future.

There's also a few new MMOs on the horizon as well that'll throw themselves into the mix. Blue Protocol is due next year which is a Bandai Namco game being published alongside Amazon. There's the Riot Games MMO which is mostly a mystery but if they nail it like they nailed LoL and Valorant, it's going to be huge. Sony are producing "live service" titles under PlayStation with the fast being The Last of Us. They might not be MMOs in the traditional sense but they still tick a lot of the boxes even if they're closer to being like Destiny 2 or GTA Online than a traditional subscription based title.

[strawberrycake]

I'd say the opposite is true in regards to the exodus, at least from people I know. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes. XIV has a great story but many systems in the end game are quite shallow beyond an initial set of rewards (and if you don't want to do excessive grinding of every relic or getting achievements that require 1000s of collectibles turned in, for example). GW2 and other MMOs, while they've survived, have their own content cycles and ultimately their own quirks.

It's easy to pick on FFXIV and the community for selling the game as the best thing since sliced bread... but when you actually get past that initial learning curve and new player experience/feeling, you soon seen the flaws and areas of contention between developer and player. Class reworks are a strong area in which SE make changes that seemingly piss everyone off. Housing systems and various issues around it are a well beaten horse at this stage. Even the underlying server infrastructure and limitations placed on the game due to it are tired discussions at this stage. Any Viera or Hrothgar hat enjoyers in chat? The only advantage XIV has is age in that it's not yet reached the stage in which players just get aggressive towards the developers for repeat failing which is pretty much identical to WoW when it was at the same stage in it's lifecycle. If I had to make a prediction, long standing issues are only going to drive more toxicity between the developers and players of this game in the future.

There's also a few new MMOs on the horizon as well that'll throw themselves into the mix. Blue Protocol is due next year which is a Bandai Namco game being published alongside Amazon. There's the Riot Games MMO which is mostly a mystery but if they nail it like they nailed LoL and Valorant, it's going to be huge. Sony are producing "live service" titles under PlayStation with the fast being The Last of Us. They might not be MMOs in the traditional sense but they still tick a lot of the boxes even if they're closer to being like Destiny 2 or GTA Online than a traditional subscription based title.

Yeah I agree. A lot of the issues present in XIV atm are due to the Devs refusing to listen. And it amazes me because when Bungie did it, they were wrong, when Blizz did it, they were wrong, when Bandai did it, they were wrong. Like if you look at any and ALL game developers when they do exactly what SE and Yoshi P are doing right now. They. Are. Wrong. Why do we give them so much leeway.

And before anyone says anything, No they are no transparent. THey give us vague statements. They half answer questions and ignore everyone lately, JP, EU, and NA. They can't keep up with their own game. This isn;t doom saying either, it's just looking at whats going on.

[Thaciscokidd]

SNip

First sorry about the delay in my post just landed in LAX about 20 min ago and finally caught up with this tread.

Second, while I stand by what I posted, I agree with you totally. The parallels are kinda scary when you look at how people use to super hard defend WoW to how the community is today. Tribalism runs rampant here and it only hurts the game.

And maybe Blue Protocol will be enough to shake if up if it doesn't lean to far into the gacha side like Genshin and Ashes of Creation might be a better New World when it comes out, but most definitely Riot's MMO is going to shake things up. They're in a stronger position than WoW was when it came out initially. If you don't think this remember when this game was sidelined for just being a "Weeb Game".

I think Liam's post following yours mostly answers how I ultimately feel. I don't want this community to fall into a can't see the forest because of the trees situation.

[DPZ2]

I think Liam's post following yours mostly answers how I ultimately feel. I don't want this community to fall into a can't see the forest because of the trees situation.

I also don't want this community to fall into the "can't see the forest because this is a coral reef" situation. This game only needs to be what it is ... a Final Fantasy MMORPG. It doesn't need to become WoW or GW2 or New World. It's perfectly fine for another game to become way more popular than this one. Brand loyalty is a myth perpetuated by players who require validation that what they are playing is popular.

I wish Riot all the success it deserves. I've never heard of Blue Protocol. I'll look at both once players outside of this game produce enough buzz to make it worth my while. And by 'buzz' I mean more than Coming Soon!

By the way: I don't remember reading the term "weeb game" for Final Fantasy 14 until the last two months. In these forums.