Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Deveryn]

I got older so that's why all of my utility is gone, the dungeons are all the same, and open world is dead now? Weird.

You're oversimplifying, which is not surprising. I knew from the start you only wanted to whine and not look at the possibility of anything else having any kind of effect on your experience aside from the inevitable evolution of the game.

[Valfreyja]

Eh, I've got 3000+ hours in the game. Main character was created 10/1/20 and been playing since.

A content drought depends largely on -how- you play. Like if you push grind everything at once, yeah you'll wreck what there is. In all the time I've played, I've still got a huge list of things to complete.

1. Just now reached Pagos, so I still have a lot of Eureka content to run through for leveling and relics.

2. Just started ARR relics to farm.

3. In Zadnor, still have a lot of that to do for relics.

4. A lot of niche achievements for mounts and stuff, for dungeon running.

5. Grinding more jobs to 90, with most at 80 or so now.

6. Higher levels in PotD and HoH, and the new Deep Dungeon coming.

7. Raid farming for glam pieces.

8. Ocean Fishing mastery

9. Criterion Dungeons and the Savage variant of them

Still plenty to do. And that's with playing heavily.

Not saying you can't hit a drought, just it all depends on how you play the game, I guess. And for how long. I mean, 6.3 is soon, new NPC and content to run, by the time that's largely over, the Island will be expanding and there'll be other stuff to do during the wait for 6.4.

[Tehmon]

Whenever the statement regarding having nothing to do and being bored comes up, very few actually manage to say specifically what it is that they require, what content development should be halted to make way for this new content they want, and what kind of rewards it should have (because XIV players don't seem to do anything for the sake of it). Perhaps I have missed a long history of posts where all those questions are answered in great detail, but I find the discussion overall quite barren of real solutions and suggestions. And I'm guessing because it's a subscription based service, the answer to most questions is '' it's not my job to come up with content, the devs should know what we want by now. ''

And midcore... oh the good ol' midcore, as if throwing it around everywhere makes it obvious as to what type of content that is referring to. I still have no idea personally as everyone's idea of what constitutes midcore content varies. And it's not even that midcore content is enough, it needs to be enjoyable and farmable throughout the entire patch. Obviously some kind of endless treadmill needs to be implemented.

[R041]

...

Very few managed to specify? But you're also saying you didn't even read the thread? Dude. lol

We've provided massive lists of wants and desires through this whole thread. Not a single poster even said anything like "It's not my job to come up with ideas", tons of ideas were thrown around. The overall identity and gameplay mechanics have been slimmed to a point where giving us a billion instanced zones of trash AoE mobs won't fix the issue. Because the formula has become so predictably boring and samey. The only thing that has gotten better over the years are boss mechanics, and even then it's still predictable and samey now. Everything linearly scripted perfectly from both your rotation and the boss rotation, nothing left to surprise, all is predictable after the first run.

[Shurrikhan]

Just want to point out I've leveled crafting on several characters in WoW and have gotten them to the point I could make gear for myself within, oh, about a day or two generally. Good luck doing that as a new player in FF lmao

This argument literally makes no sense

How does it not?

Consider:

• How long does it take when starting from a character with no prior crafting proficiency to be able to make relevant endgame gear?
• How long does it take to level crafters enough to make all relevant endgame gear?
• How does the max ilvl of crafted gear compare against current-tier content?

In brief, WoW's crafting requires less time (though the gap shrinks slightly for omni-leveling) and reaches a higher ilvl relative to current content (to slightly oversimplify, the value of crafting in WoW is raised/inflated by making use of drops from relevant content, allowing it to reach the ilvls of said content).

You could consider taking less of a grind to get to be able to make relevant gear, or crafting being providing more than just tier-catch-up a bad thing, I guess? To Rolder, those are clearly good things. Given that... what is exactly is confusing/nonsensical there?

I get it. Both games are casual friendly. WoW is more friendlier than XIV. If you really have to declare a winner. Wow wins. I don’t really care

So what? That means both games are catering to filthy casuals like me. It’s great. I’m the beneficiary. You don’t see those Yoshi-simp or forum whit knight fuming about how good Dragonflight is, do you? People are actually happy for WoW players, including me.

Hopefully both games will keep staying way. I’m certainly not worried about it. The only one that seems to care is that both MMOs are not MMO enough because both games are so easy to access that it removes the need of player interaction.

No one's saying that an MMO becomes less MMO because it's accessible. It becomes less an MMO when it offers less in total, especially portions that would otherwise enjoyably leverage its being massively multiplayer.

Accessibility is, in itself, necessary and good. But truncating a game "for accessibility" at the expense of content variety --especially when there was already accessible content aplenty and the harder or more interdependent content could nonetheless be accessible with a modicum of design effort-- is not good.

[Atelier-Bagur]

How does it not?

Consider:

• How long does it take when starting from a character with no prior crafting proficiency to be able to make relevant endgame gear?
• How long does it take to level crafters enough to make all relevant endgame gear?
• How does the max ilvl of crafted gear compare against current-tier content?

In brief, WoW's crafting requires less time (though the gap shrinks slightly for omni-leveling) and reaches a higher ilvl relative to current content (to slightly oversimplify, the value of crafting in WoW is raised/inflated by making use of drops from relevant content, allowing it to reach the ilvls of said content).

You could consider taking less of a grind to get to be able to make relevant gear, or crafting being providing more than just tier-catch-up a bad thing, I guess? To Rolder, those are clearly good things. Given that... what is exactly is confusing/nonsensical there?







No one's saying that an MMO becomes less MMO because it's accessible. It becomes less an MMO when it offers less in total, especially portions that would otherwise enjoyably leverage its being massively multiplayer.

Accessibility is, in itself, necessary and good. But truncating a game "for accessibility" at the expense of content variety --especially when there was already accessible content aplenty and the harder or more interdependent content could nonetheless be accessible with a modicum of design effort-- is not good.

1. Because leveling a crafter job from 1-90 with leves can be done very quickly and trivial if you know which leves to do for efficient turn-ins with little to no downtime. Ive done so with multiple characters within a week, which is more than enough time within a patch raid tier.

2. Master recipes are easily gotten through scrips. And there are multiple avenues to get them quickly.

It really just takes a little bit of effort of your time to get to endgame crafting. This is actually a system that's funny enough criticized by the hardcore crafting community due to how easy it is for somebody to get to endgame crafting and start taking over people's markets if they're smart enough.

[Shurrikhan]

1. Because leveling a crafter job from 1-90 with leves can be done very quickly and trivial if you know which leves to do for efficient turn-ins with little to no downtime. Ive done so with multiple characters within a week, which is more than enough time within a patch raid tier.

2. Master recipes are easily gotten through scrips. And there are multiple avenues to get them quickly.

It really just takes a little bit of effort of your time to get to endgame crafting. This is actually a system that's funny enough criticized by the hardcore crafting community due to how easy it is for somebody to get to endgame crafting and start taking over people's markets if they're smart enough.

So, armed with that knowledge, would you be able to able to omnilevel your professions in couple evenings here as can be done there (though across a multiple characters there, obviously)?

The crux of the argument was that XIV's crafting is a less accessible and longer grind for ultimately less value. Even if a player less in the know would overestimate the time it'd take to omnilevel, that definitely seems to hold true.

[Atelier-Bagur]

So, armed with that knowledge, would you be able to able to omnilevel your professions in couple evenings here as can be done there (though across a multiple characters there, obviously)?

The crux of the argument was that XIV's crafting is a less accessible and longer grind for ultimately less value. Even if a player less in the know would overestimate the time it'd take to omnilevel, that definitely seems to hold true.

We can use that same argument here you use then. How long does it take to get a completely fresh alt in WoW to get to endgame and to also level their professions? Certainly not in a single evening. Crafting progression is very linear and getting to max omnicrafter just takes like I said a week at most. I see no issue how its being done in this game.

[R041]

We can use that same argument here you use then. How long does it take to get a completely fresh alt in WoW to get to endgame and to also level their professions? Certainly not in a single evening. Crafting progression is very linear and getting to max omnicrafter just takes like I said a week at most. I see no issue how its being done in this game.

The answer is in the quote you replied to. Couple of days/evenings. Leveling is far more diverse and engaging. Also if you have the current expac MSQ finished then you can skip it on your alts but still have the option of doing all of the side content. Currencies are typically cross-toon, and most unlocks are account wide.

I do not believe you can get max omnicrafter in a week in FF as a new player without external funding and direct guidance.

(I personally don't have beef with either game's crafting, it's the gathering in FF that's meh) - I THINK I prefer FF Crafting, but eh. I'm more interested in overall engaging content.

[Atelier-Bagur]

The answer is in the quote you replied to. Couple of days/evenings. Leveling is far more diverse and engaging. Also if you have the current expac MSQ finished then you can skip it on your alts but still have the option of doing all of the side content. Currencies are typically cross-toon, and most unlocks are account wide.

I do not believe you can get max omnicrafter in a week in FF as a new player without external funding and direct guidance.

Wasnt talking about if the leveling was diverse or engaging, was referring to how fast it is to level crafters. Shurrikhan used variables that relied on a player being "informed" and knowledgeable in the process to get to max level yet left those same variables out when trying to compare FFXIV crafting. Which is why I went with my angle. Crafter leveling is trivial due to leves or GC turn ins and anyone can easily figure out how to exploit it by going for triple turn ins on crafted items with easy to acquire materials. I originally followed a leve guide for my leveling but once I figured out the pattern, I was able to do the rest of it of my own. Unless we're saying that the average player would be a dunce to figure it out?

And I dont care if you believe me or not, I know from personal experience that crafting progression is by large so easily done and very trivial. Honestly the most time consuming part if you care about getting bis/pentameld (which isnt required) is the pentamelding process of spending materia on RNG.