Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Zebraoracle]

Gotcha, when I see people say midcore, I see it described as other content so I was surprised.

[VelKallor]

SE is KNOWN for their chainsaw behavior..

Really? Please show me where SE removed questlines the size of the WoW legendary ring and cloak.

Ill wait.

1.0 to 2.0 LOL

If you havent worked out by now WHY 1.0 needed to be redone, I cant help you.

We barely even have classes anymore, and open world is a joke

Opinion, not fact.

And the 'Story' is just a thousand writers throwing random shit at a wall

Not even worth answering.

[Atelier-Bagur]

I guess it depends on where you are with it - But I'd consider them midcore, yeah. If I could do Bozja content in an open world, while also being able to run around, mine, join the critical engagements at my own time, then that'd be perfect.

FATEs and Hunts as we currently have them are just 2 polar worst opposites of Critical Engagements. Not even talking about the Actions you get in these Duties, but just how they're setup and offer actual engaging content.

Edit: I think one of the main issues people have, or at least I have is how sectioned off EVERYTHING is. It's all pocketed away and nothing really feels like a consistent, lived world. It's just separated mini-games that all have really slow activities and menu systems now. At least in other MMOs, when I run around and do content, there's tangential content as well. Here? I don't think I've ever stopped what I was doing to go Gather or Craft something mid-content. Because those are so separated as systems that when I want resources, it's me just basically being a drone for an hour instead of naturally getting them as I wander and do things in the world itself.

When Eureka released, I was so happy that they were testing WORLD systems and we all assumed they were actually going to start using that tech in the game, not wall it off forever. Then they go and do it again, develop more walled content, forever, always walled content.

Bozja isnt really that midcore honestly. Same with Eureka, theyre all easy to get through. Its just the amount of time and effort needed to get through it and thats not actual difficulty. And even then the average casual player only wants to go through it once. Imagine if those systems were part of progressing through the game, yeah I doubt thats going to sit well with people.

Actual Midcore content imo are things like Delibrum and current EX Trials.

[Shurrikhan]

Want lacklustre?

DIRECT from the WOW forums

i mean if you say you hate M+ and Raid and PvP, then yeah, GW2 probably is a better fit for you.

Lets just put that into perspective, shall we?

A PAY TO PLAY MMO player is telling someone else that a[B] FREE TO PLAY MMO has more to offer.

...as a fit for their preferred combat content style.

Fractals, while holding a similar place to M+, are still as different from them as a vastly undergeared M0 is from an M15 despite one's having similar TTK.
Similarly, the WvW zergs may be more their cup of tea than the more objective based epic battlegrounds or the smaller RBGs, let alone arena.

If you axe those differences, there's still as much to do to progress or catch up through in WoW without delving into M+, raids, or PvP as there is on GW2 or in XIV outside of relic grind periods (and even then only if you discount faction progress for WoW on the sole basis of them not necessarily providing ilvl rewards past the casual level without similar reductions for XIV).

Oh the copium is REAL...

Perhaps, though you may be mistaken about whose copium, or in what direction it aims.

XIV is... fine(?), but it's not some exactly showing up other MMOs' "lackluster midcore content," let alone in terms of longevity of breadth of relevance.

The humungous number of live letters we get from the team is FAR in excess of what Blizzard has ever done.

Yet we get far less in terms of concrete, complete, and/or coherent reasoning explaining changes or what is likely for future adjustments. I'm not sure hearing a lot more politically-savvy fluff should be called a bonus.

I'd rather just see the odd blue post in my role forum that actually explains the short, mid, and long-term implications and impacts of current directions in job/spec/general design there than hear the more consistent half-minute of lip-service in which we're essentially gas-lighted as unappeasable just because the devs can't find, on a metaphorical scale of 1-10, a solution between 3 and 8.

[strawberrycake]

...as a fit for their preferred combat style.

Fractals, while holding a similar place to M+, are still as different from them as a vastly undergeared M0 is from an M15 despite one's having similar TTK.
Similarly, the WvW zergs may be more their cup of tea than the more objective based epic battlegrounds or the smaller RBGs, let alone arena.

If you axe there's differences, there's still as much to do to progress or catch up through in WoW without delving into M+, raids, or PvP as there is on GW2 or in XIV outside of relic grind periods (and even then only if you discount faction progress for WoW on the sole basis of them not necessarily providing ilvl rewards past the casual level without similar reductions for XIV).


Perhaps, though you may be mistaken about whose copium, or in what direction it aims.

XIV is... fine(?), but it's not some exactly showing up other MMOs' "lackluster midcore content," let alone in terms of longevity of breadth of relevance.



Yet we get far less in terms of concrete, complete, and/or coherent reasoning explaining changes or what is likely for future adjustments. I'm not sure hearing a lot more politically-savvy fluff should be called a bonus.

THis person doesn't want to have a conversation in good faith, just let them be with their opinions of the game. It's not like they make up the swaths of people who play it.

[Magikazam]

Really? Please show me where SE removed questlines the size of the WoW legendary ring and cloak.

Ill wait.



If you havent worked out by now WHY 1.0 needed to be redone, I cant help you.



Opinion, not fact.



Not even worth answering.

It funny how you talk about what's opinion and fact after stating WoW has no story.

[Shurrikhan]

It funny how you talk about what's opinion and fact after stating WoW has no story.

Aye, since there is objectively story there; it's just that whether it's "good" or not will hit subjectively. Else...

• XIV's story is about a bird-lady who flew to space and got so depressed that her vibe threatened to destroy the world. More reductions at 10.

[Deveryn]

Yet we get far less in terms of concrete, complete, and/or coherent reasoning explaining changes or what is likely for future adjustments. I'm not sure hearing a lot more politically-savvy fluff should be called a bonus.

We get so little because people can barely handle even that much without losing their minds. Surely you saw the threads about what Island Sanctuary was "going to be" and how disappointed people were when they were certain it would be like that. Now imagine they gave us a more detailed plan and explanation for one of the upcoming changes... That patch day comes and things aren't as they were originally told. All hell breaks loose because "you promised us".

[Shurrikhan]

We get so little because people can barely handle even that much without losing their minds. Surely you saw the threads about what Island Sanctuary was "going to be" and how disappointed people were when they were certain it would be like that. Now imagine they gave us a more detailed plan and explanation for one of the upcoming changes... That patch day comes and things aren't as they were originally told. All hell breaks loose because "you promised us".

I'm more referring to combat / job changes, such as that of Kaiten's removal, or why they couldn't simply make button consolidation conditional instead of bouncing back and forth between the likes of High Jump<->Mirage Dive.

Conveying the scale/scope of new content is, kind of notoriously, different.

[VelKallor]

XIV's story is about a bird-lady who flew to space and got so depressed that her vibe threatened to destroy the world. More reductions at 10.

Thats like saying the story of the Titanic is the ship sank. Seriously........?

WoW has no story.

What you have is a mish mash of disconnected, fragmented, retconned and recycled bits and pieces that resemble a story the way a broken down Model T Ford resembles a Ferrari.

Every expac has been carved, sliced, diced, folded, spindled, mutilated, deleted, rewritten or outright removed, combined with ad hoc additions that are more like trying to put a shattered mirror back together wiih masking tape.

Every expac has been subjected to a mass pruning, deleted content at all levels up and including their last expac where they carved out entire questlines IN THE FIRST FEW WEEKS of the expansion.

MoP had a huge, sweeping story, all thats left is the Cliffs Notes version, ALL the content for the entire legendary cloak questline has been literally obliterated, as well as a load of content for each zone, also wiped out overnight.

Gone, as if it had never been.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...emoved-content

Here is just ONE example from a second list

https://www.wowhead.com/forums/topic...taclysm-169564

The epic Sceptre of the Shifting Sands quest chain is removed or otherwise drastically altered.

Several locations used in this quest chain have been physically removed, including the Isle of Dread in Feralas and the two islands in fatigue waters south of Tanaris.
Items at risk of being removed include the game's only epic cooking recipe Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops, the Band of Icy Depths and 4 lore-heavy level 60 weapons (1,2,3,4).
The level 60 world boss Maws and many other boss level mobs will never be summoned again.

and here

From what I can tell, when 9.1 dropped Blizzard simply removed the following quests in an undocumented change. Simply deleted them and marked the complete for everybody. Given that the core problem that starts the expansion is the capture of the faction leaders, simply deleting these quests obviously guts the bulk of the main, non-covenant story for the entire expansion.

Apparently deleted quests: Explore Torghast, Remnants of Hope, Information for a Price, Torment Chamber: Jaina Finding a Witness, Lest the Trail Go Cold, Torment Chamber: Thrall Signs of the Lion, The Captive King, An Echo in the Darkness, The Highlord's Vision, A Mourneblade Born, The Jailer's Grasp.

Remember Teldrassill? War of Thorns?

Gone. All of it.

This is one of the most idiotic things they've done: making the entire War of Thorns a pre-patch, just to be removed in a month. The main starting point of BfA faction war, single most important event that kicked everything in action is completely removed

Case closed.