Second Wind is a terrible ability and either needs redesigned or outright removed.

[Raoabolic]

And what are BRD/MCH supposed to do when there's not a healer around?

Kite the mobs and not get hit. They are ranged so it's a no brainer what happens if a ranged anything gets hit. Leg/foot graze exists for a reason, use it man!

Tanks shouldn't be able to heal substantially either, yet here we are when they can solo dungeon bosses, 8 man raid bosses etc.

What are you, the mitigation police? Besides, the only tanks that can do that are warrior. Tell a 6.0 drk player who played during 2.0-3.0 to heal themselves and see what kind of answer they have for you, lmao.

[flowerfairy]

The people trying to bring healer engagement into this don’t really understand what most healers are complaining about… The real problem is the design of the healer kits themselves. The lack of downtime buttons, the over abundance of redundant oGCD heals, the deprecation of GCD heals due to said oGCD heal abundance, this is the main issue healers have. The amount of healing we have to do in a fight can also slightly play into our engagement, but that’s ultimately a low priority. How much healing we have to do pretty much always goes away when everyone’s item level goes up.

Phys. Ranged being able heal about the worth of Lustrate every 2 minutes isn’t going to make playing a healer more or less boring, we’re already in a bad spot. They have stuff like Leg Graze and Foot Graze that pretty much only see use in solo content. I think one of these can be replaced for a heal, maybe a regen that recovers a total that’s a little less than what’s recovered with a full uptime Bloodpath.

[Deceptus]

Besides, the only tanks that can do that are warrior.

Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tell a 6.0 drk player who played during 2.0-3.0 to heal themselves and see what kind of answer they have for you, lmao.

1) We're talking about the game now, not 6 years ago.

2) Even if you want to have that discussion, Dark arts + Abyssal Drain was ridiculously good healing. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Raoabolic]

Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about.

So you are telling me that all other tanks have the sustain of war? How about some actual points in your post rather than worthless insults? lmao

[Deceptus]

So you are telling me that all other tanks have the sustain of war? How about some actual points in your post rather than worthless insults? lmao

You're the one who broadly said "Only Warriors can do that", we weren't talking about sustain in general. But yes. Every tank can solo dungeon bosses without problems. Every single one.

Every tank ended up soloing P1N after the Living Dead change. Every single one.

[Raoabolic]

You're the one who broadly said "Only Warriors can do that", we weren't talking about sustain in general. But yes. Every tank can solo dungeon bosses without problems. Every single one.

Every tank ended up soloing P1N after the Living Dead change. Every single one.

"after the living dead change"
Yes, they fixed LD so it's not garbage. We have circled around to what that other poster said where the LD rework wasn't needed. Just because LD is just Bloodwhetting with a 300s cooldown. Let's see those drk's clear it before the LD change. Also, if every tank can clear a current- wait a sec, it's just p1 Normal. Are you even arguing in good faith? Meme runs have been a thing for a while since the devs decided to homogenize classes. If you are talking about bigger issues with the game that allowed this to happen then I can get behind it but from where i'm standing you are just upset tanks are not dying compared to dps classes because "Tanks shouldn't be able to heal substantially either". That just sounds like a kid going "But mommy, HE got the better sustain!". That kind of mindset is why every class is being retooled to play the same.

[Gemina]

The people trying to bring healer engagement into this don’t really understand what most healers are complaining about… The real problem is the design of the healer kits themselves. The lack of downtime buttons, the over abundance of redundant oGCD heals, the deprecation of GCD heals due to said oGCD heal abundance, this is the main issue healers have. The amount of healing we have to do in a fight can also slightly play into our engagement, but that’s ultimately a low priority. How much healing we have to do pretty much always goes away when everyone’s item level goes up.

Phys. Ranged being able heal about the worth of Lustrate every 2 minutes isn’t going to make playing a healer more or less boring, we’re already in a bad spot. They have stuff like Leg Graze and Foot Graze that pretty much only see use in solo content. I think one of these can be replaced for a heal, maybe a regen that recovers a total that’s a little less than what’s recovered with a full uptime Bloodpath.

Healers and whatever complaints they have about their kits and engagement don't have much relevance at all in this matter. I also don't know how the sustainability of tanks entered the conversation either. How the hell did Living Dead make it in here? It boils down to does physical ranged need more self sustain other than SW? If the layers of the subject reveals that there is more going on with physical ranged than just their ability to sustain/assist healers, then sure. However, I think Deceptus was pretty clear in her OP that the role in question is physical ranged, especially with BRD and MCH.

[Deceptus]

Just necroing this to point out that 6.3 brought about Hyper Potions. Stronger than Second Wind at half the cooldown. A potion is better than a Role Action.

[Saraide]

"after the living dead change"
Yes, they fixed LD so it's not garbage. We have circled around to what that other poster said where the LD rework wasn't needed. Just because LD is just Bloodwhetting with a 300s cooldown. Let's see those drk's clear it before the LD change. Also, if every tank can clear a current- wait a sec, it's just p1 Normal. Are you even arguing in good faith? Meme runs have been a thing for a while since the devs decided to homogenize classes. If you are talking about bigger issues with the game that allowed this to happen then I can get behind it but from where i'm standing you are just upset tanks are not dying compared to dps classes because "Tanks shouldn't be able to heal substantially either". That just sounds like a kid going "But mommy, HE got the better sustain!". That kind of mindset is why every class is being retooled to play the same.

Pointing at the solo runs of normal modes can not be done in good faith. Yes a warrior has done it when it launched but it took them like 40 minutes or something. That's not a win at this point, that's just suffering.

[Connor]

This argument doesn’t make much sense to me I’m afraid. As a Bard or Dancer you’re not limited to Second Wind for supporting healing; Bards can use Nature’s Minne (which does affect Second Wind), Dancers have Improvisation and Curing Waltz. Machinist doesn’t have anything but then they don’t really seem to have much of anything these days lol. At least they got their wrenches back

Surely if it’s that much of an issue to have and there’s no healers for whatever reason, Hyper Potions could help as previously mentioned. Or just ask the healers to stop spamming Glare etc (it’s frustrating when healers think using a single oGCD is a dps loss lol). Melee already have both Second Wind and Bloodbath

I don’t see the advantage of giving ranged dps even more self-healing, since all it really does is further disincentivises healers from using their actual heals (for which there’s already such a minuscule incentive lol). Maybe I’m just misunderstanding something

In terms of solo content there should really be something like variant/lost actions to let players try and round out their skill set for things like this. I.E DPS equipping Cure etc, healers equipping dps abilities. Honestly I think a system like that for normal content would go a long way to make the game feel less stagnant and classes feel a bit more distinct from each other, but that’s a different thread altogether lol