What even is the purpose of all those non melee/blm jobs?

[Belaradra]

BLM should be top damage because it has no raid damage buffs, and when compared to SAM and MCH (the two jobs of its same "selfish DPS" category), it has the least mobility as its core job concept. Less mobility = more damage. You could argue that less mobility = more difficulty, but difficulty is subjective. Mobility is not.

I don't remember PLD being reworked between HW and SB. It may have lost Rage of Halone, had TP shuffled, and gained Req. + Holy Spirit, but I don't remember any real rework. In the same vein, DRK also lost Power Slash and Delirium combo, and WAR was the only tank rework in SB that I recall.

I agree.
People have a distaste for simple potency buffs and I suppose that makes sense for some classes, but for Black Mage, potency buffs will absolutely do it. There is no need to simplify things, because that would lead down a dangerous path. Casters/Mages in MMOs are very hard to balance. They are usually deemed too easy and too powerful for how risk free they play. Nerfs usually follow.

Final Fantasy's Black Mage is one of 2 MMOs known to me (I do not know many games as is) that manage to add great difficulty despite them being slow, ranged and hard hitting. The other examples would be Sorceress and to some extend Summoner from Lost Ark.
Without difficulty, we end up with Final Fantasy's Summoner, who can hardly be called a caster and is way too forgiving. The consequence is reduced potency.

[Lyth]

Even though I have only been playing for 2 weeks, I have no interest in Black Mage gaining more tools to make it easier; just stronger.

It really depends on what the basis of your argument for making your chosen job more powerful is. If you went up to any player and offered them free potency buffs for no additional effort they're not going to turn you down. 'But I want it' is flimsy reasoning.

If your argument is to create a level rdps playing field for all players regardless of job choice, I can support that. If your argument is because BLM is personally 'difficult' for you to play well, part of that might be because you're still learning the ropes, and it's going to be difficult for you to make an objective assessment on how that limited experience matches up to the 18 other regular battle jobs in this game. I'm just pointing out that SE invariably interprets 'difficulty' arguments as a sign that the job is actually too hard for players, and not as a sign that it needs potency buffs.

Speaking personally, what makes a job rewarding isn't numbers. The numbers themselves are irrelevant really, especially when everyone is ballpark in the same range. It's when you discover a fight-specific trick that lets you push your dps further. A lot of that comes from encounter design. But we have to also see more clever actions that unlock interesting gameplay possibilities for uptime. Offer players more opportunities to deliver skillful execution of encounters. Create more variable mechanics where players have to think on the fly about how to maintain their uptime. That's what keeps things fun over multiple clears.

[Belaradra]

It really depends on what the basis of your argument for making your chosen job more powerful is. If you went up to any player and offered them free potency buffs for no additional effort they're not going to turn you down. 'But I want it' is flimsy reasoning.

If your argument is to create a level rdps playing field for all players regardless of job choice, I can support that. If your argument is because BLM is personally 'difficult' for you to play well, part of that might be because you're still learning the ropes, and it's going to be difficult for you to make an objective assessment on how that limited experience matches up to the 18 other regular battle jobs in this game. I'm just pointing out that SE invariably interprets 'difficulty' arguments as a sign that the job is actually too hard for players, and not as a sign that it needs potency buffs.

Speaking personally, what makes a job rewarding isn't numbers. The numbers themselves are irrelevant really, especially when everyone is ballpark in the same range. It's when you discover a fight-specific trick that lets you push your dps further. A lot of that comes from encounter design. But we have to also see more clever actions that unlock interesting gameplay possibilities for uptime. Offer players more opportunities to deliver skillful execution of encounters. Create more variable mechanics where players have to think on the fly about how to maintain their uptime. That's what keeps things fun over multiple clears.

I do not find Black Mage hard as it stands. Summoner is significantly harder for me to comprehend; I just can't wrap my head around it. Black Mage makes more sense to me, but I do recognize the foresight and boss knowledge needed, that on Summoner I scarcely require.

My main reasoning is indeed rDPS, but I can not deny that I am a supporter of "more difficult=more damage." While I love Black Mage the most, I do not think I would bother with it if there was not a significant enough pay off associated with it. Currently it is okay, but not quite where it could be. I base all my opinion on logs, hearsay, and discussions I led and less so on my personal experience which hardly matters. So far though, my partner who plays Ninja utterly blows me out of the water damage wise even though I try extremely hard during mob pulls and have flawless uptime on bosses. Rarely is it that he does not deal at least 5-6% more damage than me. Again, this is not part of my argument. It just goes to show how miserable it is in a game where you constantly get downsynced to be reminded of your class's uselessness prior to level 90.

[Lyth]

A couple of points here.

I don't think it's possible to balance 19 jobs across all 90 levels including level syncing effects and gear variations. The levelling process is just a tutorial to introduce job actions to you in a stepwise fashion. While it's great to be competitive during levelling roulette, the important thing is to push yourself harder in all the content you do regardless of outcome. Most of the discussion around rdps balance here is centered around raid content, where gear and levels are relatively homogenous, and that's where balance really matters. And I do think that there should be a level playing field here, regardless of whether you're playing melee, caster, or ranged. Casters and ranged absolutely should have buffs to bring them into parity with melee.

You will always find job specific challenges that may make certain encounters more difficult. That's okay, everyone runs into them. Making it work out while still being competitive is part of the enjoyment. If the rdps balance is tight enough, then your NIN friend might have a slight advantage on a particular fight and you'll still pull out on top, or vice versa. That's a fantastic feeling, and it's part of how you push yourself to become better. This game should encourage friendly competition and give players opportunities to showcase their skill. The problem is that a large proportion of this community spends their time trying to forcibly skew the dps balance in their favor so that they have a guaranteed raid slot. It just drags down the enjoyment for everyone in the long run.

[Belaradra]

A couple of points here.

I don't think it's possible to balance 19 jobs across all 90 levels including level syncing effects and gear variations. The levelling process is just a tutorial to introduce job actions to you in a stepwise fashion. While it's great to be competitive during levelling roulette, the important thing is to push yourself harder in all the content you do regardless of outcome. Most of the discussion around rdps balance here is centered around raid content, where gear and levels are relatively homogenous, and that's where balance really matters. And I do think that there should be a level playing field here, regardless of whether you're playing melee, caster, or ranged. Casters and ranged absolutely should have buffs to bring them into parity with melee.

You will always find job specific challenges that may make certain encounters more difficult. That's okay, everyone runs into them. Making it work out while still being competitive is part of the enjoyment. If the rdps balance is tight enough, then your NIN friend might have a slight advantage on a particular fight and you'll still pull out on top, or vice versa. That's a fantastic feeling, and it's part of how you push yourself to become better. This game should encourage friendly competition and give players opportunities to showcase their skill. The problem is that a large proportion of this community spends their time trying to forcibly skew the dps balance in their favor so that they have a guaranteed raid slot. It just drags down the enjoyment for everyone in the long run.

I agree that endgame is what matters most and that balance across all levels could never be possible. It is just unfortunate that you get desynced left and right for, well, the vast majority of the content. Endwalker encompasses a tiny part of the game. Perhaps for that reason, it might be worth it to give it another look and some balancing.

I would also prefer gaining access to raids by proof of my skill and talent rather than my class swaying the leaders into doing so. How I would go about fabricating such proof, I know not.

[kajv95]

I would also prefer gaining access to raids by proof of my skill and talent rather than my class swaying the leaders into doing so. How I would go about fabricating such proof, I know not.

Could always have Stone Sky Sea requirements to atleast prove that you meet a certain dps treshold that should let you clear, but I don't see them implementing that tbh.

[AlgernonBlackwood]

I would also prefer gaining access to raids by proof of my skill and talent rather than my class swaying the leaders into doing so. How I would go about fabricating such proof, I know not.

If only there were some kind of advanced combat tool that would allow you to track your performance and share it with prospective parties.

[Belaradra]

If only there were some kind of advanced combat tool that would allow you to track your performance and share it with prospective parties.

Ah, so target dummy numbers are also taken for full in this game. Good to know; I get a free ticket then.

[Semirhage]

When I hear that "harder, more complex" jobs should deal more damage than less complex ones, I get a response flash in my head.



So why are melee doing more damage than ranged physical?

[FireMage]

When I hear that "harder, more complex" jobs should deal more damage than less complex ones, I get a response flash in my head.



So why are melee doing more damage than ranged physical?

Any melee is harder than every ranged physical. Ranged phys is the easiest DPS role