Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

[Raven2014]

Reward structures are necessary to help justify replaying content that has no innate replayability. This game charges a subscription, so it would probably make sense to incentivize replaying content.

Other MMOs offer content with better replayability, so it's totally possible for SE to offer a similar experience.

Then name them, give me some example. I'm a gamer, I'm always on the market for something better, assuming they are exist. I had played most, if not all the noticeable MMO ever available on the market beside those Korean grindfest PaytoWin ones, and for me FF14 come out first at a distance. So I'm very confuse about "when people claim there are better games than FF14", it makes me wonder like is there some hidden gem out there that I'm missing. If that's the case then please enlighten me.

For the record, I'm someone who:

- Have 8 chars in WoW and used to do top 10 US raiding.
- Have 10 chars in GW2, and did a US first clear of Fractal, and also had every legendary weapons.
- Have 14 chars in SW:TOR, and went through every story. (I'm a Founder)
- Have 8 chars in Tera, and cleared most of the dungeon and Raid.

And between those, you can also sprinkle Wildstars, Elderscrolls, EVE, Genshin, Soul Blade, Black Desert, PSO2 .etc. And in my experience:

- People complain about story, but FF14 is the top, or near the top. Granted, the script may be not to everyone taste, but the presentation and volume is hard to match. SW:TOR is probably the only challenger in this aspect, but the reason it failed because it was a (legendary) SP game with a MMO skin.
- People complain about gearing, FF14 have the most casual prep among them.
- People complain about reward and loot, FF14 have the most friendly loot system bar none.

Like ... seriously, as someone who played since 2.0, the reward and ease of access to ... literally about anything, be it crafting, leveling, materia, gears drop, books, tokens have become magnitude more generous, and it get more generous every single expack. You know, it hasn't happened yet, but I wouldn't suprise the 450 tome cap gonna be increased in 7.0. That's like literally the last thing they still hold out for, and there is like nothing else they can make the system more generous barring giving everyone stuff for free.

So ... what are these games that you claim even more generous than FF14. Because I would love to try it out.

[LittleImp]

So I'm very confuse about "when people claim there are better games than FF14"

I never made the claim that other games are better, please reread my post before getting weirdly belligerent and trying to duke it out with invisible strawmen.

I said "Other MMOs offer content with better replayability"

World of Warcraft, GW2, PSO2 all have content that is consistently more interesting to participate in repeatedly than FF14.

For the record, I'm someone who:

You will need to post logged evidence of any of this for it to be relevant. These types of claims are so commonplace among the 14 community that they have lost meaning.

- People complain about story, but FF14 is the top, or near the top.

I did not complain about the story in my post.

- People complain about gearing, FF14 have the most casual prep among them.

I did not complain about gearing in my post, but it's a topic worth discussing elsewhere. Comparatively the gearing is very good in this game, but that doesn't mean it cannot be improved further.

- People complain about reward and loot, FF14 have the most friendly loot system bar none.

In regards to rewards, we are talking specifically about content like Criterion dungeon, where rewards are widely criticized for being worthless. A 'Friendly' loot system would entail putting catchup gear ala Bozja haste gear, or upgrade materials ala the 24 man into Criterion, offering players another way to catchup and increase their character power, without raising the overall cap on character power or even meeting it.

So ... what are these games that you claim even more generous than FF14. Because I would love to try it out.

You are so weirdly heated that you didn't even read my post properly, despite it being composed of only three sentences. I never said the games were more generous, I never commented on their gearing systems, and I never said they were overall better than 14. There are certain things they do right that 14 could learn from to become an even better game.

Games like WoW or PSO2 have much higher innate replayability in their content because those games have more layers of complexity and offer content with shifting circumstances. In 14, you can press identical inputs every time in almost every single piece of content and get an identical result. Everything is completely scripted down the milisecond, including the way jobs play. All fights in the game devolve into the worlds slowest rhythm game after a few runs.

It's unfortunately much easier to ask SE to provide player satisfaction through more enticing rewards, rather than to ask them to fundamentally reconsider the way they develop encounters. (Though I would love to see them do that and add more chaos to experimental content like Criterion)

[Raven2014]

You will need to post logged evidence of any of this for it to be relevant. These types of claims are so commonplace among the 14 community that they have lost meaning.

If you don't believe me, you can just ignore me. If you lack the faith to follow a discussion in good faith, there is no point to try.

I do make a lot of assumption about the people I talk to (who doesn't). I can assume you're wrong, I can assume you're hyperbolic, I can assume you making the wrong assumption. But I never assume you're lying, unless you claim something out of the realm of possibility.

You are so weirdly heated

The weird part here is you think I'm ... heated?

I never said the games were more generous, I never commented on their gearing systems, and I never said they were overall better than 14.

Go back to all the quoted you had above, do you notice a certain word is missing? Your post is just another extension of a 100+ page discussion where each and every single of those complains have come up ... multiple of times. My response simply to the same context, and I took care not to say you, but people.

There are certain things they do right that 14 could learn from to become an even better game.

I don't disagree, but there is a limit of comparison until it become unreal. Like, to take what you were arguing with the other person about the GW2 comparison. As someone who had solo Lupicus back in the day on 4 different classes I'm fully aware how flexible the fights in GW2 are. But GW2 is a game that designed around the fact it does not rely on Holy Trinity. That means they are not designed that requires you to have "specific" things to fight.

- I can kill a boss spamming one attack for challenge.
- A skill and full glass cannon group can kill a boss in a few second flat.
- The first Lupicus kill of a group in my guild involving them chain coprsing for almost 2 hours. (But they later remove that ability).


If you ask me between GW2 and FF14, which system I like more. I would say GW2 . But that's not the same question as which one is better. While there is no issue for a boss in GW2 to fire off several critical attack in a row. In FF14 for example, you can not just have the boss randomly decide to fire off succession Tank busters more than the defensive CD that the tank has. Or the boss randomly decided to enter a non-targetable phase when the group just fire off their 2min+pot window which may result in missing the DPS check.


You can try to make an orange taste better, but you ain't gonna do that by trying to make it "crunchy" like an apple.

Games like WoW or PSO2 have much higher innate replayability in their content because those games have more layers of complexity and offer content with shifting circumstances.

Whether that statement is "correct" or not, potential is meaningless unless it is realized. Which one you would choose? A smart but lazy worker or an hardworking one with just an average IQ?

There are reason why despite playing all of them, and even heavily invested in some, in the end I left those other game and stay with FF14. You're free to not believe my claim, but I can certainly say I'm not alone given FF14 position in the market. At the end, you know there is a very famous saying: "the number doesn't lie".

Drop me atell when those game realize their "innate" ability, I'll happy to drop by again. Until then this is my home and I'm happy with it. Believe it or not, I wouldn't pay 15$ for it otherwise while most of those other games were F2P.

[LittleImp]

The weird part here is you think I'm ... heated?

Because you very obviously are in this thread. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Go back to all the quoted you had above, do you notice a certain word is missing? Your post is just another extension of a 100+ page discussion where each and every single of those complains have come up ... multiple of times. My response simply to the same context, and I took care not to say you, but people.

It's weird to specifically reply to someone's post, and then try to use it as an opportunity to punch at the air and fight invisible, hypothetical 'people' on an issue that wasn't actually mentioned in the post you are replying to.

There are reason why despite playing all of them, and even heavily invested in some, in the end I left those other game and stay with FF14. You're free to not believe my claim, but I can certainly say I'm not alone given FF14 position in the market. At the end, you know there is a very famous saying: "the number doesn't lie".

The numbers don't exist.

Neither WoW nor FFXIV release official population statistics, and the most accurate unofficial FF14 statistics indicate 14 hasn't even achieved 1/5th of WoW's peak subscriber count.

[Raven2014]

The numbers don't exist.

Neither WoW nor FFXIV release official population statistics, and the most accurate unofficial FF14 statistics indicate 14 hasn't even achieved

The catch is WoW used to boast about it left and right, until they decided not anymore. Hum, I wonder why?

Remember I said I used to have 8 characters in WoW? My server was one of the one that got the axe when the sub situation got so bad and they had to consolidate. I wasn't there when during the period they did it, so imagine my surprise when I came back and found they scatter my 8 chars across like 4 different servers, some even had their name changed to weird bots name.

Remember I said I'm a founder player in TOR? I actually had the honor (horror) of seeing a server dying in real time as Bioware and EA refused the server merge until it was too late as the game enter steep decline. I sitll remember it, a Sunday morning, I logged in, and see myself as the only person on The Hub, that when I decided to leave Tor for the first time.

My dude, I don't need the dev to give me their number to know the population was declining. And even if you don't believe me as the person in those story, you know what I said is still a fact.

1/5th of WoW's peak subscriber count.

Guess what ... I was a WoW players at those times ... why I'm not a WoW players now. Want to guess?

And since those "peak" time, WoW have consistently bleed player until it's bad enough they decided to stop release sub data. While at the same time FF14 has been consistently expanding in the same time period. Again, don't need any official data, I can tell how many players there are now in the game based on economy, queue time, PF activities .etc.

And yet here I keep seeing people advocate the game that has been gaining players should try to "improve" the way all those games that have been contracting. Like ... yo, make it make sense.

[LittleImp]

My dude, I don't need the dev to give me their number to know the population was declining. And even if you don't believe me as the person in those story, you know what I said is still a fact.

Ok, so the "numbers" that "don't lie" are actually your feelings.

Interesting!

[Raven2014]

Ok, so the "numbers" that "don't lie" are actually your feelings.

Interesting!

the number of server don't lie. The number of players I interact with don't lie. The number of players active per day don't lie.

But I see now you're just being facetious.

Just gonna say, if you run out of argument, there is much more graceful way to stop, simply stop responding would be one of them. I do that sometime too, and you can consider that my cue to stop responding to you. Maybe the reason I come across as heated to you simply because I do take discussion and debate serious, and never try to be facetious about it.