Alliance Raid Looting

[Atelier-Bagur]

I totally get you, which is why my point wasn't about frequency but rather it existing and it being used in the first place. How frequent this is done depends on datacenter, time of day and current patch (like how some patches ask you to complete specific raid series, like Bozja required Ivalice series).

My problem is the existence of it as it is a clear point that can be abused and has been abused. The frequency is irrelevant.

The problem is that CT works just like any alliance raid where you do actually need a certain ilv to get into it. Its main gimmick is that CT itself is by the far the fastest alliance raid to clear which is the incentive for those people to force its queue.

If they go back and rework all of the CT raids to be more challenging and the same level of length and quality as the current raids then that would be a win. But then those cheaters would just move on the Void Ark (which I think is the next fastest raid?) and try to manipulate ilv for quicker clears.

Its just like with bots, except youre combating with a very low minority of people whom do what they do because they want to get their daily raids done quickly.

I cant find a good solution to permanently solve it without reworking the level sync/item lv system for all instanced content

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The problem is that CT works just like any alliance raid where you do actually need a certain ilv to get into it. Its main gimmick is that CT itself is by the far the fastest alliance raid to clear which is the incentive for those people to force its queue.

If they go back and rework all of the CT raids to be more challenging and the same level of length and quality as the current raids then that would be a win. But then those cheaters would just move on the Void Ark (which I think is the next fastest raid?) and try to manipulate ilv for quicker clears.

Its just like with bots, except youre combating with a very low minority of people whom do what they do because they want to get their daily raids done quickly.

I cant find a good solution to permanently solve it without reworking the level sync/item lv system for all instanced content

There are various options to consider actually.

1.) Rebalancing of the raids (ARR + potentially HW)
While the least likely due to the amount of effort required to rescale the raid, it will have the most profound impact based on the potency-per-second difference from now to back in ARR. Our HP is also a lot more consistent with the addition of Vitality on all gear pieces, making a boss like Bone Dragon and his Platinal adds a minimal threat. This alone may not be enough though, leading to...

2.) Item level CAP
A much easier to implement feature as it exists throughout the entire game already. The minimum item level for the CT raids are 40 item levels below the respective Coil Raid cap that was obtainable since then (LotA min 50, 1st Coil max 90; ST min 70, 2nd Coil max 110; WoD min 90, 3rd Coil max 130).

Considering there is currently no cap, we are essentially doing Labyrinth of the Ancients with 80 item levels above the intended difficulty and Syrcus Tower still by a whopping 60. Higher even, as 135 is the item level maximum for Lv50.

3.) Dynamic item level requirements
Hardly a shocker, these exist as well. While currently statically implemented every major patch with Mentor Roulette, a dynamic version is not out of the question. Essentially lift the item level and unlock requirements based on your job's current level to continue being able to do Alliance Raid roulette on that job. Fundamentally:
- per level backet (50, 60, 70, etc) require minimum 1 of your current level bracket and all previous unlocked
- per unlocked duty, raise minimum required item level based on the highest currently unlocked

This is essentially a small-scale database check on your unlocked content and searching for "max" on "minimum item level" in your available duties.

4.) EXP adjustments
Should all else fail, an adjustment to EXP and/or other rewards are an option. However I wouldn't leave it at "just increase for all other content", I'd go as far as saying "reduce it for LotA and ST" if they remain in the powercrept state they are currently in.
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I'll be honest, it is a hot mess and I won't say it is "easy to just do it'" given I work in a similar work environment, but it is definitely within their scope and within reason to do SOMETHING about it.

[Gemina]

If they go back and rework all of the CT raids to be more challenging and the same level of length and quality as the current raids then that would be a win. But then those cheaters would just move on the Void Ark (which I think is the next fastest raid?) and try to manipulate ilv for quicker clears.

The ilv cheese would no longer be valid, since any player in the queue below level 60 will thwart their efforts to cheese the roulette. Reworking the CT raids will undoubtedly remove one part of this problem.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

The ilv cheese would no longer be valid, since any player in the queue below level 60 will thwart their efforts to cheese the roulette. Reworking the CT raids will undoubtedly remove one part of this problem.

I do miss co-tanks actually having to do something, like tanking an Iron Giant away from the group on Behemoth or having to consider the adds on Bone Dragon to be staggered - or god forbid, the platinals actually doing dangerous damage again.

[Ransu]

Once again, this is a tragic side effect of individuals dragging the pool of Alliance Raid Roulette participants into CT using item level manipulation (you notice it by checking if someone's HP isn't full when you zone in), reducing how many people are left for 3.X/4.X/5.X series raids since most people will run the roulette once a day.

This isn't just people doing MSQ in Crystal Tower or directly queueing for it and I'd appreciate if we stopped lying to ourselves about this.

Even if that trick didn't work, you're gonna get CT raids in the roulette 90% of the time regardless because its REQUIRED to continue the MSQ now.

[Themarvin]

make it so your level would reflect the maxmum min ilevel needed for the max level 24 man raid, so you can just cheese it anymore.

[Conadrium]

Once again, this is a tragic side effect of individuals dragging the pool of Alliance Raid Roulette participants into CT using item level manipulation (you notice it by checking if someone's HP isn't full when you zone in), reducing how many people are left for 3.X/4.X/5.X series raids since most people will run the roulette once a day.

This isn't just people doing MSQ in Crystal Tower or directly queueing for it and I'd appreciate if we stopped lying to ourselves about this.

No one is saying it is? We are saying crystal tower is the ONLY series you HAVE to unlock and that means anyone leveling is probably dragging 23 people into it. Everytime they do the roulette. Everyone sub 69 if pirates isn’t unlocked. Everyone sub 79 if tactics raids aren’t unlocked, and everyone sub 89 if Nier isn’t unlocked.

I myself had three 90s before I unlocked two of those three. Never once Ilvl cheeses and still dragged hundreds of people into crystal towers.

[Raoabolic]

*make the game free to play up to level 60*
*complain about the amount of sub 60 raids that are popping up*
Who. Could. Have. Seen. This. Coming.

[Raven2014]

*make the game free to play up to level 60*
*complain about the amount of sub 60 raids that are popping up*
Who. Could. Have. Seen. This. Coming.

Except the people who complain it (a few players) and the people who make it happen (the dev) are not one and the same?

And to echo other comments, the ilvl-cheese is hardly the issue here. It's very similar to how people talk about the issue of a "few" individual hoarding a lot of house as if it's really make a different. Is it a problem? Yes. But the point is even if the dev re-possess all of those houses, it would not even make a small dent to house availability. The real problem(s) lie somewhere else.


I had said before but I played for almost 10 years now, my main (who have everything unlocked) rarely have a reason to run Alliance anymore. These days I mostly play on my alts, especially when it comes to lvling. And guess what, I don't need to cheese the ilvl to get in ... I simply don't have any other Alliance raid unlocked, so I guarantee to get CT raid regardless of what ilvl or class level I'm on. Meaning, it would render all the suggestions I ever heard about this issue moot. And I can tell, there are a lot of people like me, and we will pull you into CT raid even if there is no one ilevel cheese, ontop of the new players of course.


The people suggesting moving CT to its own story roulette ... yeah, that never gonna happen. SE will not want to give impression to their potential new subscribers (new players or people on free trial) that the games have low pop by having those people wait a long time for CT to pop. Remember the time before the original 8men Castrum/Pre before they got the reward buff? It took a long time for new players to pop them too. What happened after the buff? You can pop it any time you want in less than 5min. Castrrum/Pre went from the things nobody want to run to the next best selling hotcake.


THAT is the root problem. The 3.0 to 5.0 Alliance, especially 5.0 have extremely shit reward ratio to time spent. If you look at it, people want to run CT roulette because when you get it, the Alliance roullete would yield roughly the same reward/time ratio as the other roulettes. But if you queue into a 4.0 ... or heaven forbid, the 5.0 raid, then suddenly the Alliance roulette efficient ratio drop by not just by a factor of 2, but 3, or even 4 times if you get a bad group. It actually would be weird if most players don't try to avoid it.


You want people to queue, or at least not to avoid it, you gotta make it worth their time. Do that, and all other the problems will solve by themselves. Any other method to force people into it will simply be met with resistance and you can bet people will try to find away to get around it.

[kaynide]

make it so your level would reflect the maxmum min ilevel needed for the max level 24 man raid, so you can just cheese it anymore.

Wouldn’t affect as many as you think; it’s been said on the various other postings already, but some players simply don’t unlock the raids if they aren’t required. New players might not even care to do them since the loot is not useful when compared to, say, tomestone sets or just straight dungeon gear as they level.

Not to mention alts; mine will never unlock raids outside of CT.