Do we want another 10 years of FF14 on this engine?

[Atelier-Bagur]

People complaining about engines in MMOs really cement how little they know of the genre. That as well as outing themselves of lacking any experience outside FFXIV. Look at Everquest, FFXI, OSRS, LotRO, WoW, GW2, those games have old engines yet theyre still kicking. People dont come to MMOs because of shiny engines, they come for enjoying what the game already offers.

The most FFXIV can feasibly do majorly is updating their graphics and textures which is something thats already in the works.

[caffe_macchiato]

People complaining about engines in MMOs really cement how little they know of the genre. That as well as outing themselves of lacking any experience outside FFXIV. Look at Everquest, FFXI, OSRS, LotRO, WoW, GW2, those games have old engines yet theyre still kicking.

Correct! FFXIV was built standing on the shoulder of giants.

Except, one small problem…most those games came out in a small span of time (1999-2003) long ago when the MMO genre was as new as the World Wide Web. People became entranced with the novel concept of being in a virtual world with others. Now it is 2022. Children learn how to use social media as soon as they can read and write. The MMO genre is older than most gamers these days, and some say it’s obsolete. Your argument, that we must respect the old ways, falls flat for anyone who’s younger than you are—most of whom can smoke, drink, and vote just like you can.

Are you SURE you want FFXIV to be a retirement home for those too old to learn something new? I don’t think it should be a pre-requisite for someone to have played EQ and WoW in the old days, and by extension be a “boomer”—to enjoy this game.

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

[Atelier-Bagur]

Correct! FFXIV was built standing on the shoulder of giants.

Except, one small problem…most those games came out in a small span of time (1999-2003) long ago when the MMO genre was as new as the World Wide Web. People became entranced with the novel concept of being in a virtual world with others. Now it is 2022. Children learn how to use social media as soon as they can read and write. The MMO genre is older than most gamers these days, and some say it’s obsolete. Your argument, that we must respect the old ways, falls flat for anyone who’s younger than you are—most of whom can smoke, drink, and vote just like you can.

Are you SURE you want FFXIV to be a retirement home for those too old to learn something new? I don’t think it should be a pre-requisite for someone to have played EQ and WoW in the old days, and by extension be a “boomer”—to enjoy this game.

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

No, basically what I'm implying is that we dont want nor should the game need to attempt to modernize itself in terms of engines in a feeble attempt to keep up with the new kids on the block. At least not fully in that way. People play FFXIV, because they play FFXIV. Its why games still have big audiences for those older MMOs, they enjoy going back because they like what those games have. Im not ever expecting FFXIV to suddenly be at the same level of quality as an MMO made in 2022. All I care about is them adding into what already works, not to constantly re-invent the wheel like WoW attempted to do for the past 4 expansions on their end.

[Deveryn]

Correct! FFXIV was built standing on the shoulder of giants.

Except, one small problem…most those games came out in a small span of time (1999-2003) long ago when the MMO genre was as new as the World Wide Web. People became entranced with the novel concept of being in a virtual world with others. Now it is 2022. Children learn how to use social media as soon as they can read and write. The MMO genre is older than most gamers these days, and some say it’s obsolete. Your argument, that we must respect the old ways, falls flat for anyone who’s younger than you are—most of whom can smoke, drink, and vote just like you can.

Are you SURE you want FFXIV to be a retirement home for those too old to learn something new? I don’t think it should be a pre-requisite for someone to have played EQ and WoW in the old days, and by extension be a “boomer”—to enjoy this game.

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

Your example of the younger generation makes me laugh because frankly they're even stupider than the last. They have all this tech and they don't all know how to use it very well, nor do they really have a grasp on basic communication.

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history. It's the only long term commitment out there, comparable to any long-running TV series. It's something to get into when you're done experimenting with all these games and are looking for something to pass the time. It takes all ages, but it really is geared towards the more adult consumers. It's a worthwhile investment and a generally consistent product.

[Midareyukki]

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

That's not their responsability. Nor is that a flaw of the game. Because...

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history.

14 was my first ever MMO. I've since played GW2, FF11, PSO2 (the older version), SWTOR and ESO. Only SWTOR actually felt outdated, but only because of how lacklustre the initial experience felt. And there are things FF14 does better and things 14 does worse. And the engine's age isn't a proper measuring factor, because the engine is similar to Luminous, the one FF15 was made in. They brought in people involved in making Luminous to pitch in, and it was made for ARR. People often think we're still using 1.0's Crystal Tools engine; we're not. It just needed to be a bit more condensed than actual Luminous is, because it's an MMORPG and you need simplicity on certain things so you don't overload your client's machine. FF14's engine isn't old.

It's not even a generational issue. The older the MMO, the more sacrifices you're going to have to deal with due to the technology used at the time. So that implies you being aware that the game will have its limitations, but that you can still have fun with it. Newer generations aren't braindead. They can adjust.

And in terms of graphical quality, that's what Square's working on right now. They're polishing things up, dealing with their graphical quality, going to improve on their character models and textures, et cetera. In theory, you can totally design something more elaborate on WoW's engine. Question is, is that what's needed? WoW did have graphical updates before, and they still didn't change the way the game looked, only polished some models and made the aesthetics look a bit more pleasant. Because the overall feel of the game had already been established. By that logic, GW2 should look like utter crap, as it's still using just a revamped version of GW1's engine. But it doesn't, it looks fly as hell. It doesn't have the amazing graphics Square Enix makes for 14, no, but it does still look faithful to its style and concept art. Even if other games come and look ultra realistic, it doesn't stop FF14 from being a good game in its own right. It might need a revamp on some stuff, sure... But that doesn't imply reinventing it from the ground up. What this thread is asking for is colossal: the same effort you'd employ migrating 1.0 to ARR.

And when it comes to FF14 "falling behind", that's what happens to all games. But in an MMO, that works differently. Obviously you can't compare, say, the technology used in FF13 vs the one used in FF15. FF13 became obsolete soon after, but it was a single-player experience. FF14 might have an older design, but it still stands today. It might need polishing like brushing up some of its code, some of its menus and interactions, but it's doing fine regardless. Even if other games look and operate better, it doesn't mean it'll be the absolute death of FF14. By those standards, WoW should have died years before it ever dropped in popularity, as it was being outshined by other MMOs. Yet it survived due to popularity, didn't it? Meaning engine and technology aren't the things that cause MMOs to die out. At least, not anytime soon.

So rather than "rehaul the engine", it should be "polish the game". Which can be done and still keep the engine.

[Shurrikhan]

FF14's engine isn't old.

It being relatively new doesn't mean it isn't badly limiting, however.

[Midareyukki]

It being relatively new doesn't mean it isn't badly limiting, however.

Yeah. It really doesn't. But that's not what was being questioned.

[caffe_macchiato]

Your example of the younger generation makes me laugh because frankly they're even stupider than the last. They have all this tech and they don't all know how to use it very well, nor do they really have a grasp on basic communication.

A shame that the FFXIV community has become intertwined with generational angst. It's futile. They will replace us. At this point, if FFXIV can't welcome those who are under 20, then just take it down and replace it with something new. I'd rather that than to waste my money on a retirement home simulator, because I really don't want to feel any older than I already am.

Once again: there is nothing you can do. They will replace us.

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history.

A genre isn't a person and doesn't have feelings. It's a video game. You play it to have fun. Genre isn't important, and being an MMO isn't special when everyone has internet and many games can be played with others.

[Deveryn]

A shame that the FFXIV community has become intertwined with generational angst. It's futile. They will replace us. At this point, if FFXIV can't welcome those who are under 20, then just take it down and replace it with something new. I'd rather that than to waste my money on a retirement home simulator, because I really don't want to feel any older than I already am.

Once again: there is nothing you can do. They will replace us.

No one's worried about that and it's a long way off.

A genre isn't a person and doesn't have feelings. It's a video game. You play it to have fun. Genre isn't important, and being an MMO isn't special when everyone has internet and many games can be played with others.

You should stop trying so hard with these posts.