Do we want another 10 years of FF14 on this engine?

[Shurrikhan]

I could care less about the engine, it's the content, you can't blame lack of PvE content and poor class design on an engine.

Elements of each can definitely be blamed on the engine.

The opportunities of what a class's toolkit can do? Constrained by the engine.

Low speed of encounter development due to an inefficient design pipeline? Largely a consequence of the engine.

No, i didnt, and it never has either.

its the same wheezing, bug riddled old engine in desperate need of an upgrade..then again the entire game needs a massive overhaul, not the least of which is to move to modern day gaming paradigms, losing the FOMO aspects and their current predatory models to keep you subbed through a humungous list of mandatory daily chores, getting rid of "wurld pee vee pee" and quite frankly, needs to move towards respecting players time.

That INCLUDES disposing of their useless, archaic, outdated ,worthless "faction war", which passed its use by date ten years ago.

Much more needs to be acct wide, cross faction needs to be fully implemented ACROSS THE BOARD, along with closing and merging a lot of their ghost town servers. They are bleeding players, I very much doubt their new expac will do well for long in terms of retention for the reason that in the end its "raid, pvp or do m plus, if not get out" mentality will serve to show that the devs have learned NOTHING in that last decade.
<snip>

Ignoring that absolutely none of the above has anything to do with an engine and that the 2001 engine WoW runs on still manages to be far snappier and capable of considerably more physics capacities than the likes of XIV (or even GW2, etc.)...

• The FOMO aspects have been mild as heck for the last 3 expansions. What is so unintuitive or predatory about having the whole expansion to get the achievements from challenges of said expansion? Why should those achievement rewards, too, atop the glamours and droppable mounts, be available to be to solo-run a couple of expansions later?
• The "grinds" aren't there to force people to stay subbed any more than the achievements list is, gear, or anything else. Those grind loops have been primarily catch-up access for ultracasual/returning players and ways to have people run into each other in the open world. Those are hardly horrible things.
• World PvP is entirely optional. I don't know, nor care to know, where it touched you, but you can literally turn it off at any time.
• Dragonflight very mildly encourages doing <essentially any sort of content (but fastest via open world stuff)> per week for the rep chest, and 1-4 M+ runs per week if that would exceed raid ilvl. Otherwise, it's just the weekly raid drops, same as here. (Personally, I much prefer that over the weekly tome grind. It takes almost no time per week to do, and I actually enjoy the activities involved instead of begrudging them.)
• Almost everything short of gear is account wide. Most of what little remains is likewise accelerated by progress on one's main (much like the Armory Bonus).
• The only "time gating" is the MSQ (to patches) and raid drops being limited to once-per-boss-per-week, and the weekly unlocked bonus drop (the Vault). No currency gear grind. No relic weapon grind.

There's plenty that's lacking with WoW, but what you're pointing at are issues already mostly solved and presently quite a ways ahead of, say, XIV.

[Deveryn]

Correct! FFXIV was built standing on the shoulder of giants.

Except, one small problem…most those games came out in a small span of time (1999-2003) long ago when the MMO genre was as new as the World Wide Web. People became entranced with the novel concept of being in a virtual world with others. Now it is 2022. Children learn how to use social media as soon as they can read and write. The MMO genre is older than most gamers these days, and some say it’s obsolete. Your argument, that we must respect the old ways, falls flat for anyone who’s younger than you are—most of whom can smoke, drink, and vote just like you can.

Are you SURE you want FFXIV to be a retirement home for those too old to learn something new? I don’t think it should be a pre-requisite for someone to have played EQ and WoW in the old days, and by extension be a “boomer”—to enjoy this game.

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

Your example of the younger generation makes me laugh because frankly they're even stupider than the last. They have all this tech and they don't all know how to use it very well, nor do they really have a grasp on basic communication.

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history. It's the only long term commitment out there, comparable to any long-running TV series. It's something to get into when you're done experimenting with all these games and are looking for something to pass the time. It takes all ages, but it really is geared towards the more adult consumers. It's a worthwhile investment and a generally consistent product.

[Midareyukki]

Someday they will replace you. Should the MMO genre be replaced as well? Or can SE make the game run better for everyone?

That's not their responsability. Nor is that a flaw of the game. Because...

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history.

14 was my first ever MMO. I've since played GW2, FF11, PSO2 (the older version), SWTOR and ESO. Only SWTOR actually felt outdated, but only because of how lacklustre the initial experience felt. And there are things FF14 does better and things 14 does worse. And the engine's age isn't a proper measuring factor, because the engine is similar to Luminous, the one FF15 was made in. They brought in people involved in making Luminous to pitch in, and it was made for ARR. People often think we're still using 1.0's Crystal Tools engine; we're not. It just needed to be a bit more condensed than actual Luminous is, because it's an MMORPG and you need simplicity on certain things so you don't overload your client's machine. FF14's engine isn't old.

It's not even a generational issue. The older the MMO, the more sacrifices you're going to have to deal with due to the technology used at the time. So that implies you being aware that the game will have its limitations, but that you can still have fun with it. Newer generations aren't braindead. They can adjust.

And in terms of graphical quality, that's what Square's working on right now. They're polishing things up, dealing with their graphical quality, going to improve on their character models and textures, et cetera. In theory, you can totally design something more elaborate on WoW's engine. Question is, is that what's needed? WoW did have graphical updates before, and they still didn't change the way the game looked, only polished some models and made the aesthetics look a bit more pleasant. Because the overall feel of the game had already been established. By that logic, GW2 should look like utter crap, as it's still using just a revamped version of GW1's engine. But it doesn't, it looks fly as hell. It doesn't have the amazing graphics Square Enix makes for 14, no, but it does still look faithful to its style and concept art. Even if other games come and look ultra realistic, it doesn't stop FF14 from being a good game in its own right. It might need a revamp on some stuff, sure... But that doesn't imply reinventing it from the ground up. What this thread is asking for is colossal: the same effort you'd employ migrating 1.0 to ARR.

And when it comes to FF14 "falling behind", that's what happens to all games. But in an MMO, that works differently. Obviously you can't compare, say, the technology used in FF13 vs the one used in FF15. FF13 became obsolete soon after, but it was a single-player experience. FF14 might have an older design, but it still stands today. It might need polishing like brushing up some of its code, some of its menus and interactions, but it's doing fine regardless. Even if other games look and operate better, it doesn't mean it'll be the absolute death of FF14. By those standards, WoW should have died years before it ever dropped in popularity, as it was being outshined by other MMOs. Yet it survived due to popularity, didn't it? Meaning engine and technology aren't the things that cause MMOs to die out. At least, not anytime soon.

So rather than "rehaul the engine", it should be "polish the game". Which can be done and still keep the engine.

[Shurrikhan]

FF14's engine isn't old.

It being relatively new doesn't mean it isn't badly limiting, however.

[bothadees21]

Why? FFXI still runs on the same old PS2/DX8 era engine 20 years after it was launched. Why should FFXIV ARR be any different if it's reasonably stable?

Incidentally this game was never designed to have 'instant' combat in the first place, so if you're expecting that, you'll forever be unsatisfied I'm afraid, and that is completely unreleated to the graphics engine.

Besides, this whole arguement is pointless anyway because Yoshi revealed ages ago they actually are working on a graphical enhancement for the game. Just have patience.

This is not the same as upgrading the engine and tbh based on the screenshots they've given of the 7.0 changes, some of the upscaled textures that modders have done are far superior. Those modders don't even get paid either lol

[PirateRyanG]

This is not the same as upgrading the engine and tbh based on the screenshots they've given of the 7.0 changes, some of the upscaled textures that modders have done are far superior. Those modders don't even get paid either lol

Modders also don't have to pay attention to:

1. Whether what they do will break various bits and pieces of the game.
2. How their mods will work on the most-used hardware that FF14 is played on.

Modders can throw anything out because, at the end of the day, what they produce doesn't matter. If the staff on FF14 threw something out? People would have a field day with graphical glitches. They would have a field day complaining if minor systems broke. The majority of players play on sub-par hardware, so the developers need to consider those in the mix too. WOW had to have gradual upgrades over the years as people upgraded. The Sims has always struggled to get people over to the next iteration of The Sims as most players do not have computers that can run it.

[MonsutaMan]

Do we really want another 10 years in this?

I was kind of hoping for a new MMO......

Made by a new team.

I feel you squeezed as much out of XIV as possible. It will be dry milk at this point......

[Roxxors]

They say they have a 10 year plan for this game.

But the server ticks, housing limitations, animation limitations, spaghetti code, etc etc etc.

Devs will often say they can't do xyz because of limitations of the engine. They acknowledge that they can't make the game better because of it.

Do we really want another 10 years in this? Or would we rather get FFXIV-2?

Switching the DX from 9/11 to 12 is pretty easy, but those are just the underpinnings of the "engine". The "engine" as you call it doesn't actually depend on the version of DX it is pinned to, that is a whole mess to upgrade...

[caffe_macchiato]

Your example of the younger generation makes me laugh because frankly they're even stupider than the last. They have all this tech and they don't all know how to use it very well, nor do they really have a grasp on basic communication.

A shame that the FFXIV community has become intertwined with generational angst. It's futile. They will replace us. At this point, if FFXIV can't welcome those who are under 20, then just take it down and replace it with something new. I'd rather that than to waste my money on a retirement home simulator, because I really don't want to feel any older than I already am.

Once again: there is nothing you can do. They will replace us.

Playing the older MMOs doesn't have to be a prerequisite. One should still make an effort understand the genre and its history.

A genre isn't a person and doesn't have feelings. It's a video game. You play it to have fun. Genre isn't important, and being an MMO isn't special when everyone has internet and many games can be played with others.

[Midareyukki]

It being relatively new doesn't mean it isn't badly limiting, however.

Yeah. It really doesn't. But that's not what was being questioned.