Healers need an overhaul

[Midareyukki]

All I'm seeing in this thread are people taking the "111111111" comment far too literally to the point where I question both their reading comprehension and their level of maturity.

If you are so big-brained to pull out logs and understand them, and fail to understand how a comment is being hyperbolic and merely symbollic of JUST HOW BLOODY BLAND AND POORLY DESIGNED HEALERS ARE, then you all have a problem.

I suggest you reassess how much time you're wasting believing yourselves to be big-brained, when in reality you're just being absolutely ridiculous for focusing on such a comment.

If people saying "Healers are far too straightforward and have no inherent mechanics other than equally-straightforward healing" bothers you so much to the point where you'd dig up logs, it says far more about you yourselves and how fragile you guys are than the comment and the made it.

Otherwise this conversation will constantly take a nose-dive to the moronic.

[Semirhage]

All I'm seeing in this thread are people taking the "111111111" comment far too literally to the point where I question both their reading comprehension and their level of maturity.

If you are so big-brained to pull out logs and understand them, and fail to understand how a comment is being hyperbolic and merely symbollic of JUST HOW BLOODY BLAND AND POORLY DESIGNED HEALERS ARE, then you all have a problem.

I suggest you reassess how much time you're wasting believing yourselves to be big-brained, when in reality you're just being absolutely ridiculous for focusing on such a comment.

If people saying "Healers are far too straightforward and have no inherent mechanics other than equally-straightforward healing" bothers you so much to the point where you'd dig up logs, it says far more about you yourselves and how fragile you guys are than the comment and the made it.

Otherwise this conversation will constantly take a nose-dive to the moronic.

Dude, I just default to 111111111111 now because these people are literally impossible to reason with. I've been arguing with them for three expansions now. Doesn't matter how many times you explain they're overly simplistic. It doesn't matter how many times you demonstrate that their intra-kit engagement has no depth. Doesn't matter how many times you pull out videos showing that you could get through a dungeon (with relative ease!) standing in one spot or dancing around. Doesn't matter if you show that these issues persist into the hardest content in the game.

"HeALeRs aRE thE mOsT FuN ThEY'VE EvER been, just go play a DPS if you don't like them." It's like talking to a wall.

[Striker44]

Dude, I just default to 111111111111 now because these people are literally impossible to reason with. I've been arguing with them for three expansions now. Doesn't matter how many times you explain they're overly simplistic. It doesn't matter how many times you demonstrate that their intra-kit engagement has no depth. Doesn't matter how many times you pull out videos showing that you could get through a dungeon (with relative ease!) standing in one spot or dancing around. Doesn't matter if you show that these issues persist into the hardest content in the game.

"HeALeRs aRE thE mOsT FuN ThEY'VE EvER been, just go play a DPS if you don't like them." It's like talking to a wall.

So, you have an opinion that you're trying to masquerade as a fact, people are telling you that it's an opinion and one they don't share, you've been banging your head against this wall for three expansions now, and you're still thinking it's everyone else that is the issue?

[Allegor]

So, you have an opinion that you're trying to masquerade as a fact, people are telling you that it's an opinion and one they don't share, you've been banging your head against this wall for three expansions now, and you're still thinking it's everyone else that is the issue?

It's a fact healers are badly designed, it's an opinion whether you like them or not

I say at the very least Sage should be double down into the whole "green dps" healer, since that was literally its entire point and identity. Kardia should be its main source of healing, not just a side regen and if you don't like dpsing, there's still the other 3 healers.

[Midareyukki]

It's a fact healers are badly designed, it's an opinion whether you like them or not

People enjoy seeing "Cure 2, Insta cast Cure 2, OGCD Cure 2" or "Medica, Stronger Medica, Medica with Regens, Medica on Medica, Auto-Turret Medica" and think that's the pinnacle of innovation.

That or they think a DoT every 30s, one or two OGCDs every so often and a costant barrage of nothing but rock throws is the pinnacle of damage and engagement

[Merrigan]

So, you have an opinion that you're trying to masquerade as a fact, people are telling you that it's an opinion and one they don't share, you've been banging your head against this wall for three expansions now, and you're still thinking it's everyone else that is the issue?

This is a fact. Not an opinion.

Take any non-HL fight (savage or ultimate... And again, some healers must be bored in savage); a player who is out of the trial phase of the game, and doesn't play healer once every three months; and a group where no one is doing huge shit, and you'll find yourself spamming 1 button for the majority of the fight.

The question is: how can you argue that this isn't a problem? When healers in this game are intended to be more like hybrids than pure healers? That battles are organized, for us, into "heal windows" and "dps windows"? Which means that literally half of our gameplay is ignored?

And again, I'm only focusing on the most obvious problem. Not on the healing itself, which also suffers from overly repetitive spells, and a lack of personality that becomes glaringly obvious. Nor do we talk about the mana, which is becoming... Useless, really. I find that the astro, in particular, hardly needs to check its mana anymore.

[HyperiusUltima]

And again, I'm only focusing on the most obvious problem. Not on the healing itself, which also suffers from overly repetitive spells, and a lack of personality that becomes glaringly obvious. Nor do we talk about the mana, which is becoming... Useless, really. I find that the astro, in particular, hardly needs to check its mana anymore.

The healing itself is also a large part of the problem. Why is it we have to go to frickin' Savage or Ultimate for our enjoyment in being able to heal? Why can't we actually have that enjoyment outside of it? Essentially every healer who doesn't DPS sits around with their ass on their hands while waiting what seems to be an eternity to heal something because the other players in your group are taking so little damage and healing themselves, even from large pulls! For reference, look at current endgame dungeons. They do not require a Healer to clear. I've seen it and done it myself. You break this trinity that you want to enforce SE if jobs can self-sustain to an extent on their own that Healers aren't needed. This has been the case since P1S and P2S as well, but an all Tank run this tier hasn't happened yet from my knowledge possibly because of the DPS and healing checks.

On the side, AST hasn't had to worry about Mana since they added MP to Cards for the most part; but with Astrodyne in the mix as a personal set of buffs they practically have two versions of Lucent Dreaming for infinite MP. I can see why they use MP as a limiter though rather than useless as you say. I generally think the Piety stat is rather useless and they should not force Piety on us for it. They should instead make a baseline MP regen for the 10k we get and let it be that.

[Merrigan]

The healing itself is also a large part of the problem. Why is it we have to go to frickin' Savage or Ultimate for our enjoyment in being able to heal? Why can't we actually have that enjoyment outside of it? Essentially every healer who doesn't DPS sits around with their ass on their hands while waiting what seems to be an eternity to heal something because the other players in your group are taking so little damage and healing themselves, even from large pulls! For reference, look at current endgame dungeons. They do not require a Healer to clear. I've seen it and done it myself. You break this trinity that you want to enforce SE if jobs can self-sustain to an extent on their own that Healers aren't needed. This has been the case since P1S and P2S as well, but an all Tank run this tier hasn't happened yet from my knowledge possibly because of the DPS and healing checks.

On the side, AST hasn't had to worry about Mana since they added MP to Cards for the most part; but with Astrodyne in the mix as a personal set of buffs they practically have two versions of Lucent Dreaming for infinite MP. I can see why they use MP as a limiter though rather than useless as you say. I generally think the Piety stat is rather useless and they should not force Piety on us for it. They should instead make a baseline MP regen for the 10k we get and let it be that.

I definitely agree with that too. There are two possibilities, overall: increase the damage taken drastically, so that we have something to do and dps is only open to good healers. Or assume the hybrid aspect completely, but in the latter case we need to set up real dps combos that would put buffs/debuffs, fully exploit the other healer roles (esuna exists, let us use it), replace the shortcut that lucid dream has become with a combo, and so on.

Ideally, we'd have both at the same time. But it's unlikely to happen.

Edit: I just quickly checked the post on "you want more engaging content ? Go Ultimate". Instead of spreading myself all over the place, I'm just going to give one last shout out here.

As long as there are people who will make the anxiety argument; as long as some people are able to tell you that the norm should be a long walk without any difficulty (never mind that this is what ultimately brings the most toxicity by allowing you to do instances without ever interacting with your group); as long as they assume that those who complain are only ultra-HL players who have only played healer since birth; and as long as there are people who confuse "the role needs a rework" with "I hate this game" (> "Go play WOW brrr"), we'll never get anywhere.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Why can’t people think of a better ‘gotcha’ moment… but anyway…

All I'm seeing in this thread are people taking the "111111111" comment far too literally to the point where I question both their reading comprehension and their level of maturity.

Can we be anymore surprised? Poke their argument with a little bit of logic & it’ll crumble right away; it’s just the easiest response to deflect the grievances.

[Deceptus]

Why can’t people think of a better ‘gotcha’ moment… but anyway…



Can we be anymore surprised? Poke their argument with a little bit of logic & it’ll crumble right away; it’s just the easiest response to deflect the grievances.

It's also a pretty iron clad argument because no other job / role in the game suffers from that utter dumpster fire of a playstyle.

No other job gets objectively worse gameplay the better they personally play.