Let's talk about Alliance roulette and ilvl cheese for a sec.

[kaynide]

I mentioned it earlier, but the problem is really hard-yet-simple because in the current FF experience:

1) LotA can very likely be a player’s first experience with other players, let alone 23 of them. A player can do the entire 2.0 game solo with NPCs that telegraph (or ignore) mechanics.

2) The current player base as a whole just isn’t used to or very accepting of wipes in common roulette content. If they simply reynch’d item levels to make it as challenging as Void Arch series, it might not work anymore since we have less tanks. I remember doing them when they were new and expected to wipe at least once to Behemoth. You didn’t NEED all 6 tanks, but all 6 plus stoneskin made it less complicated with the electric towers.

…do you all even remember the mechanics for CT? Positioning the skeletons correctly…protecting the pots…

just Behemoth ..the electric towers..and bombs..and kiting that dullahan away from meteors…. This was a time when we had 6 tanks, 1 on each tower and 1 on dullahan duty. This was a time when behemoths were behemoths.

[RobynDaBank]

I sort of remember CT tactics because back when I first started playing I was super anxious about the big raid and read up multiple times on what will happen. Sounded super complicated back then. I still get Angry Mainyu wrong occasionally.

[NanaWiloh]

I mentioned it earlier, but the problem is really hard-yet-simple because in the current FF experience:

1) LotA can very likely be a player’s first experience with other players, let alone 23 of them. A player can do the entire 2.0 game solo with NPCs that telegraph (or ignore) mechanics.

2) The current player base as a whole just isn’t used to or very accepting of wipes in common roulette content. If they simply reynch’d item levels to make it as challenging as Void Arch series, it might not work anymore since we have less tanks. I remember doing them when they were new and expected to wipe at least once to Behemoth. You didn’t NEED all 6 tanks, but all 6 plus stoneskin made it less complicated with the electric towers.

…do you all even remember the mechanics for CT? Positioning the skeletons correctly…protecting the pots…

just Behemoth ..the electric towers..and bombs..and kiting that dullahan away from meteors…. This was a time when we had 6 tanks, 1 on each tower and 1 on dullahan duty. This was a time when behemoths were behemoths.

Was more or less a case of 1 player or alliance goofs everyone pays for it. Similiar to Ozma in weeping city and to that fights credit its very straight forward and simple.

[UkcsAlias]

1) LotA can very likely be a player’s first experience with other players, let alone 23 of them. A player can do the entire 2.0 game solo with NPCs that telegraph (or ignore) mechanics.

This is where the old MSQ roulette did a better job. As that at least gave them an 8 player experience before, with content that is equaly trivial (no difficulty at all). But even there you noticed that for a new player such trivial content has other issues. Everything gets killed too quickly. People lost their way. Things like that. The 24p situation at least has more players guiding (and there will always be a few slower ones). But its simply not optimal anyway.

2) The current player base as a whole just isn’t used to or very accepting of wipes in common roulette content. If they simply reynch’d item levels to make it as challenging as Void Arch series, it might not work anymore since we have less tanks. I remember doing them when they were new and expected to wipe at least once to Behemoth. You didn’t NEED all 6 tanks, but all 6 plus stoneskin made it less complicated with the electric towers.

Wipes like the void ark series can give are excelent, if people are used to these happening in any of the raids, it will make them more acceptable in general. Yes, it might be a strange feeling to get wiped at first, but it has to happen somewhere.

Most void ark content is only hard because people do not know the mechanics, and the ones that do will often have issues restoring the situation (this is where the healer lb3 shows up regularly).

I do like the void ark content, but i just cant bother going into the roulette because the ARR raids are such a dull experience its a complete waste of time. I dont want to risk facing one of those. So on these im generaly relying on the WT to give me one of those raids (and then select it directly).

[RyuDragnier]

Wipes like the void ark series can give are excelent, if people are used to these happening in any of the raids, it will make them more acceptable in general. Yes, it might be a strange feeling to get wiped at first, but it has to happen somewhere.

Most void ark content is only hard because people do not know the mechanics, and the ones that do will often have issues restoring the situation (this is where the healer lb3 shows up regularly).

I do like the void ark content, but i just cant bother going into the roulette because the ARR raids are such a dull experience its a complete waste of time. I dont want to risk facing one of those. So on these im generaly relying on the WT to give me one of those raids (and then select it directly).

Makes me believe they should revamp LotA completely, and just lower the ilvl for Syrcus Tower so people can't cheese the mechanics. Imagine having to actually do mechanics during the 2nd boss of Syrcus, the guy who everybody just breezes by.

[UkcsAlias]

Well, revamping might not be needed with the lower max ilvl. A lot of issues are generaly due to skipping mechanics. And once they cant be skipped, its most likely going to be fine. Some extra difficult fight in the middle doesnt harm, void ark also has these. And its those fights that for ilvl cheese would be a way to discourage it.

But in the end, as the other raids are optional, i dont think this will be enough. But at least it will be a major improvement.

[NanaWiloh]

Well, revamping might not be needed with the lower max ilvl. A lot of issues are generaly due to skipping mechanics. And once they cant be skipped, its most likely going to be fine. Some extra difficult fight in the middle doesnt harm, void ark also has these. And its those fights that for ilvl cheese would be a way to discourage it.

But in the end, as the other raids are optional, i dont think this will be enough. But at least it will be a major improvement.

Glaysa and King will be the only real improvement. Since they require some coordination. Rest of the bosses will remain total jokes like a lot of other 24 bosses

[Dyvid]

So, manipulating your ilvl in order to get the easiest outcome is an exploit in the strictest sense. Ilvl was designed so under geared players couldn't join content and bring the group down; someone who only had level 41 gear trying to join Bahamut's coil runs. Now players are strip down to nothing in order to cheat the algorithm and get CT raids inside of ones that would be more challenge and take more time.

Crystal tower series is needed to reach shadowbringets, fixing I'll cheese and bring back old mechanics could back fire. And result in people cheersing other 24 man's instead of lab and cot..which would not be good for players who need them.

Maybe SE needs to change CT to Duty Support in order for new players to achieve it and remove it from Alliance Roulette.

[dspguy]

Already talked about it a lot, look up some of these threads. No need to dig that topic up again cause nothing will change.

That's what people said about MSQ Roulette. And it was addressed (for better or worse).

[UkcsAlias]

That's what people said about MSQ Roulette. And it was addressed (for better or worse).

While its sad we lost the 8man duties there (it was something unique that would have been worth to preserve), but the new MSQ duties are a lot more fun to play as now you actualy have to do the mechanics. And at the same time the duration of them also improved. Its more in line with the rest of the game now.

For alliance raids there is no other format to realy go to. And changing a 24p to 4p would be bad on its own (we would lose a few raids). While that change would technicaly make them viable for the MSQ roulette. But improving the raids themselve is simply just a better solution.

1 advantage though is that because they are part of the MSQ, the chance for them to get reworked eventualy is a bit higher. Which way they will go however (if even)... thats going to remain a question for now.