Healers need an overhaul

[Deceptus]

Basically, PLD have an existential crisis. People will avoid to bring a PLD if they can. In fact, if you're part of the early clear crowd then it's not even a choice. And it's obvious they want to square that issue away before the next content circle so PLD main don't get excluded. That's the correct priority.

The entire Healing Role has been in an existential crisis for four years now, two expansions.

Healers may think they're desperate due to this "woe is me, and only my trouble is the most important and gravest!" mindset but ... at the end of the day, every group gonna bring 2 healers.

You say people are actively not playing Paladins? LOL. People legitimately aren't bringing healers to runs at all. Single healer EX is relatively common.

WHM was actively avoided for multiple expansions.

But like we said in our Double Standard post on the healing forums, Hydaelyn forbid a tank have an issue, because then it gets fixed really quick (With the exception of the Bastard Child Dark Knight and Living Dead).

[Gemina]

The entire Healing Role has been in an existential crisis for four years now, two expansions.

"Existential crisis"? SMH man.

Look, I can understand that for many healers, it is currently in a state that makes it difficult to enjoy. But when terms like this is just thrown out there, it becomes very easy to see that the problem is not just with healer design. It's also with the healers themselves.

I can't and won't try to speak for things on a savage level. I can only speak as a player who has used all four healers up to Barb EX, and what they are going through isn't an existential crisis. On the contrary, they have plenty to do, and there are numerous ways for them to deploy their kits to handle the situations within these duties. Each of them also have varied ways to handle a situation that give them slight edges over the other healers and feeling of uniqueness.

I will repeat that this does not mean that there are not issues with healing. There definitely are. Lack of offensive skills if probably the furthest on the list of these to the devs though. Trust me, I know because of my hotbar setup for each healer has at the bare minimum five offensive skills. Some skills such a Pneuma, Assize, and Macrocosmos, I feel are well designed because of their duality, which gives them both optimal and suboptimal applications of these skills that change depending on a ST vs AoE scenario. Even a skill like SGE's Phelgma can have you reserve or spend charges depending on what's going on. So it's not like these thought processes while healing don't exist. Players just say they don't, which is a blatant lie.

As usual, I default to if you want more DPS options, play a DPS job.

[IDontPetLalas]

[QUOTE=Gemina;6136381]"Existential crisis"? SMH man.

You seem to contradict yourself, On one hand you recognize that there are already skills that integrate healing and DPS.
On one hand you acknowledge that there are issues with healing design, then you seem to indicate that actually it's fairly well designed, then you go back to- well no there are issues.

The final touch which seems to indicate that you aren't arguing in good faith however is that tired old cliché of "if you want more DPS options, play a DPS job". At that point, anyone who adds that is just trolling, we're gone through this so many times at this point.

[Gemina]

"Existential crisis"? SMH man.

You seem to contradict yourself, On one hand you recognize that there are already skills that integrate healing and DPS.

On one hand you acknowledge that there are issues with healing design, then you seem to indicate that actually it's fairly well designed, then you go back to- well no there are issues.

The final touch which seems to indicate that you aren't arguing in good faith however is that tired old cliché of "if you want more DPS options, play a DPS job". At that point, anyone who adds that is just trolling, we're gone through this so many times at this point.

Yes, I do recognize that there are issues within the healer role. "Existential crisis" is not the term that describes them, or the state healing is in. Do I really need to spell that out? How much of an overdramatization that is? It is however, indicative of the emotional state of the person who states it that way. And if you think it is really that bad, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. When I log into the game, and group with players. Everything proceeds apace. Again, I can't speak for Savage, but for Barb EX and below, everything is fine. There are some issues than can improve current gameplay, but a lot of that has more to do with refining current skills, not adding new ones.

When I say, "Play a DPS job". You can call it trolling if you wish. It really doesn't matter to me. But it has more to do with the exhaustion of letting players know that moving in the direction of having more DPS skills to tangle around with isn't happening. And even if it was, it's not happening this instant. You're not going to log into the game tomorrow and will need to find a way to add 3-4 new DPS skills to your hotkeys. If healing sucks, and you're not enjoying it, and the state of them is in an "Existential Crisis", what else am I going to tell you? Honestly?

[Nizzi]

Again, I can't speak for Savage, but for Barb EX and below, everything is fine.

LMFAO

/10char

[ASkellington]

When I say, "Play a DPS job". You can call it trolling if you wish. It really doesn't matter to me. But it has more to do with the exhaustion of letting players know that moving in the direction of having more DPS skills to tangle around with isn't happening. And even if it was, it's not happening this instant. You're not going to log into the game tomorrow and will need to find a way to add 3-4 new DPS skills to your hotkeys. If healing sucks, and you're not enjoying it, and the state of them is in an "Existential Crisis", what else am I going to tell you? Honestly?

What also isn't going to happen is SE increasing healing requirements to use all of our healing tools from start to end of a healing tier out of BOTH healers.

Also, they can prune several skills from healers that we don't need and don't use to make way for dps skills. Further, in SB healers HAD more dps skills and people liked it and then SE got rid of them.

Point is we don't need all the healing tools they keep forcing on to us, we can have dps.

And as pointed out REPEATEDLY may I add:

There's also this tiny detail that I can't ever stress enough:

H E A L E R S.
E X I S T.
O U T S I D E.
E N D G A M E.
R A I D I N G.

You wanna level? 1111111111
You doing the MSQ? 111111111
You doing a solo scenario? 1111111111
You wanna do fates? 111111111
You doing your job/role quest specifically and exclusively designed for healers? ...111111111

And before anyone uses the "just switch to a dps" argument, I shouldn't be forced to switch to another job just to do content that's allegedly available for everyone. I play a healer because I like being a healer, not because I have to be one. By that very logic, tanks shouldn't exist outside raiding/roulettes either, and yet there they are, with their 123(4) combos, damage buffs, and whatever gauge-related or big dps cooldowns they got - none of which is needed for tanking ever since they neutered aggro management in ShB.

I went from lv1-90 doing MSQ as a healer. It is boring have 1 (two with a dot) button to do it. And if you're gonna sit there and tell me that I should switch to another class JUST to enjoy playing through MSQ something that 1: is the main selling point of this game and 2: the devs themselves say they want to sell as a complete solo experience then all I have to say is:

Remove CNJ from the starting classes you can pick and all healers at the start of the expansion should auto cap to the max level.

[tearagion]

But it has more to do with the exhaustion of letting players know that moving in the direction of having more DPS skills to tangle around with isn't happening.

So don't? Every player is invited to give feedback on the game on these forums, which is exactly what the healers asking for more downtime dps engagement are doing. You're straight up wasting your time for no good reason, and acting annoyed about it.

[Semirhage]

So don't? Every player is invited to give feedback on the game on these forums, which is exactly what the healers asking for more downtime dps engagement are doing. You're straight up wasting your time for no good reason, and acting annoyed about it.

Feigning bewilderment or exhaustion at the idea that anyone could possibly dislike the sheer amount of 1111111111 presses healers do is like Sylphie 101. It never stops being ridiculous, and it doesn't matter how many times you shove their faces in it. They refuse to see it.

Every level of content, at all levels of execution. It happens in DSR when your group is doing well


It 1111111111111111 happens when you're 1111111111111 massively overhealing


It 111111111111 happens when your damage is 111111111111111 grey.


Stop exaaaaaaaaaagerating. You're not going 1111111111111111111111 all the time. That's just senseless 111111111111111 hYpERbOLe. You're making it up. You press PLENTY of buttons other than Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare Glare. They're just once a minute or a handful of times in a 12 minute encounter, SEE the other button presses are there, stop being CRAAAAAAAZY.

[Deceptus]

"Existential crisis"? SMH man.

Look, I can understand that for many healers, it is currently in a state that makes it difficult to enjoy. But when terms like this is just thrown out there, it becomes very easy to see that the problem is not just with healer design. It's also with the healers themselves.

I can't and won't try to speak for things on a savage level. I can only speak as a player who has used all four healers up to Barb EX, and what they are going through isn't an existential crisis.

It becomes an existential crisis for the role when decent / good players actively aren't bringing healers to fights.

The first two EXs of Endwalker were done without healers at all when they were current, and single healing EX content is common.

Savage has been completed without healers.
Ultimates were completed without healers.

No other role is that disposable. So yes, it literally is an existential crisis for the entire role.

As usual, I default to if you want more DPS options, play a DPS job.

Great, lets have Tanks dumbed down to a single main Aggro generating skill, a 30 second DoT, a single AoE, and 10 mitigations or so that they don't really need. Can't have tanks be complex, tank anxiety is real.

Oh wait, the tanks would riot.

"If you want DPS options, then Play a DPS" is not a reasonable critique or response because it's not applied evenly or fairly across the roles. There is a blatant double standard and has been for years.