Let's talk about Alliance roulette and ilvl cheese for a sec.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Thing I did when the BLM I was in Expert with cried about me using melee lb on second boss. Got all the comms anyway.

[kaynide]

...

There are a few things though,

1) We don't actually know what percent of players actually iLVL cheese vs other legit reasons to not be able to go to other raids. If we actually knew that a significant amount of players actually cheese, then sure, SE might have a reason to act. Every other reason is legitimate though. You can't tell players they have to unlock optional X at level Y.

2) The roulette is, essentially "I signed up to do a roulette, which will be based on what the entire group of players can do, and agree to do whatever pops in exchange for a fat chunk of XP".
Therefore to not get 2.0,
-Either A) someone actually specifically needs a 60+ raid, and you were randomly selected to get put into it.
-or B) All 24 players meet requirements for the 60+ raid AND no specific player has queued for any specific raid AND the 2.0 raids were not selected randomly via RNG.

3) And again, the solution is easy. Many of them would work and have been discussed ad nauseum, but SE doesn't want to do it.


The roulette pays you for your inconvenience. The game is not going to force players to unlock optional side content because other players -who are signing up to do whatever is placed in front of them regardless of what it is- are bored with the same ol same ol.

[Helbya]

We don't actually know what percent of players actually iLVL cheese vs other legit reasons to not be able to go to other raids.

I do suspect this is a disproportionate perspective for NA servers, probably don't see this at all in JP servers since they're culturally more community minded.

[RyuDragnier]

I do suspect this is a disproportionate perspective for NA servers, probably don't see this at all in JP servers since they're culturally more community minded.

Makes you wonder what the response would be on the JP servers if the english speaking players caused this to happen over there. Like, if they kept getting only CT raids for 2 weeks straight, how would they take it?

[LaylaTsarra]

I do suspect this is a disproportionate perspective for NA servers, probably don't see this at all in JP servers since they're culturally more community minded.

I've seen people queue in naked in Japan. Is it as common as NA I doubt it but don't think it doesn't happen there. I've done my fair share of alliance roulettes on Mana DC. Again I suggest you check your party list to see how many times you're actually in a party without level 50's and that is only 1 of 3 alliances.

[kaynide]

It does happen over here in JP; even some of my JP friends do it…but that said I don’t think it’s that common.

[UkcsAlias]

There's a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Rocket jumping is a good example- there was no additional work to be done, so devs just left it in (and eventually built it into gameplay). This IS indeed common; even FFXI had Ninja (a DPS) turn into a tank role due to an exploit-loophole ability. All good!

The thing is, these complaints indicate it is broke. Even if its desired that people can cheese it, it doesnt feel like it was ment to be. And thats why i think that regardless of which direction it goes, something has to be done.

Rocket jumping is on that a feature that doesnt exist for those who dont know about it. They arent disrupted because it exists. Yet the cheese causes those who want later raids to show, to actualy not face them. This causes conflicts.

I know the idea of the roulettes, but to some degree queue times arent bad. Its the same with an insta queue and ending up in satasha with a lvl 80 char... its not fun. The MSQ roulette while being similar at least was explicitly chosen. And I am willing to wait 15 more minutes to get a decent raid instead of the ARR ones. But that is simply not rewarded (and not an option either).

For the sub lvl 60 raids there is a big f2p player base that can cover quite a bit. And unlike those at lvl 70/80/90, they are restricted to that anyway. And hell, if they would split the 2 raid groups, that would also be fine to me (actualy even better). There are many things they can do to improve the experience here. Yet it feels like even the most basic things are missing. This just asks for complaints.

And complaints even if things arent broken are an issue. Complaints are negative feedback, and that can spread out and give a bad reputation (and sometimes it can also do the inverse, because sometimes complaints are invalid because certain behaviour is desired). But without knowing what is desired, its impossible to tell if these complaints are fair.

Also, there is a big diffirence between an actual bug, an exploit, and a feature request. An exploit might not be a bug, its just using things the way it wasnt intended (and by that it can be abusive, but in many cases simply isnt). I would not consider ilvl cheese a bug, i consider it an exploit. And one that needs to be fixed (which we try to do through feature requests).

[FireMage]

The thing is, these complaints indicate it is broke.

No. Simply no. Non valid complaints don't mean something needs to be fixed

[UkcsAlias]

No. Simply no. Non valid complaints don't mean something needs to be fixed

Yet you are not the one to decide whether a complaint is valid (neither am i).

Whether its valid can be based on factors they can measure:
- Number people participating in these roulettes
- Number of people participating in other roulettes
- Number of complaints
- Number of people explicitly asking it to remain unchanged (its not a 1:1 comparison with complaints, as generaly more will be silent here - but note that most silent people are just neutral)
and probably several other factors

And a very well known factor of issues is when people meme about it, and while the memes are currently relatively weak, they are definitely there.

[Saraide]

Yet you are not the one to decide whether a complaint is valid (neither am i).

Whether its valid can be based on factors they can measure:
- Number people participating in these roulettes
- Number of people participating in other roulettes
- Number of complaints
- Number of people explicitly asking it to remain unchanged (its not a 1:1 comparison with complaints, as generaly more will be silent here - but note that most silent people are just neutral)
and probably several other factors

And a very well known factor of issues is when people meme about it, and while the memes are currently relatively weak, they are definitely there.

None of these are really worth anything if you cant prove that ilvl cheesers are pushing the needle on the amount of syrcus or lota runs happening.