Let's talk about Alliance roulette and ilvl cheese for a sec.

[RyuDragnier]

Regardless of if people do this, Crystal Tower would still come up very frequently.

Since I don't want to keep repeating myself, I just recommend watching this video to understand how we would get Crystal Tower a lot even if nobody did this https://youtu.be/RCoooKmF6NU?t=760

Here's the thing, without ilevel cheese, people would be fine with getting CT raids because we know nobody is gaming the system to get them, and thus the people entering it actually need them. I get irritated as hell when I see CT raids, but the second I see the bonus for a new player, I cope with it because I know I'm helping somebody new through it. If I don't see that, I'm automatically assuming somebody cheesed to get them. Yes, I know relics use these constantly, but it's far more likely to believe somebody is actually in need of the place if there's no way to game what you're getting. Until then, guilty until proven innocent.

[Midareyukki]

Here's the thing, without ilevel cheese, people would be fine with getting CT raids because we know nobody is gaming the system to get them, and thus the people entering it actually need them. I get irritated as hell when I see CT raids, but the second I see the bonus for a new player, I cope with it because I know I'm helping somebody new through it. If I don't see that, I'm automatically assuming somebody cheesed to get them. Yes, I know relics use these constantly, but it's far more likely to believe somebody is actually in need of the place if there's no way to game what you're getting. Until then, guilty until proven innocent.

Exactly. I don't mind CT. I think it's fine. It's a raid like any other and it's part of the roulette, so :shrug:

The real issue I have with it is how boring it is. And it's boring because it's literally just me spamming one button and dozing off. At lv 50 there is no engagement with half your classes. And when you compound that with a really easy mode raid whose mechanics are easy to ignore, it quickly becomes irritating. Mechanics should be more evident, classes should be more engaging. Or hell, both.

And it's like... why do you think people proc this to begin with, but don't do it to Sastasha on Level Roulette with the use of exploits? You'd get experience from the other raids, so why proc this one? It's because classes are uber condensed at that level and the raids are such a literal snoozefest that you can stand and AFK in with no consequence.

Had the instances been a bit more engaging, I'd be a lot more fine with getting CT. But they're not.

And before anyone asks... guys, I spam Dun Scaith and Return to Ivalice raids because of nostalgia. Often 5 times in a row on one day. I know that stuff like the palm of my hand, I literally snooze through them too. But I'm far more engaged regardless than on CT raids. So it's not the problem that "Oh you do the raids so many times you end up feeling burnt out". I don't get burnt out from these alliance raids, because they're engaging even when I know what's coming. I get burnt out from sleeping in something meant to keep me entertained.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Here's the thing, without ilevel cheese, people would be fine with getting CT raids because we know nobody is gaming the system to get them, and thus the people entering it actually need them. I get irritated as hell when I see CT raids, but the second I see the bonus for a new player, I cope with it because I know I'm helping somebody new through it. If I don't see that, I'm automatically assuming somebody cheesed to get them. Yes, I know relics use these constantly, but it's far more likely to believe somebody is actually in need of the place if there's no way to game what you're getting. Until then, guilty until proven innocent.

But how can you truly say that unless you see hard proof evidence in that instance you queue that somebody ilv cheesed? At this point is mindless paranoia just because CT is that unpopular among the veteran community. Just stop caring about it, the major reason it pops up frequently is due to new players needing to run it. Like really 80% of the time I get CT is due to somebody being new.

This tireless conversation goes nowhere and no amount of speculating will get the devs to want to make the raids less frequent since its tied to the msq. So this topic is entirely pointless. I'm not saying that ilv cheating doesnt happen but that situation is a niche occurrence that dedicating resources to come up with a solution isnt worth it.

[Midareyukki]

But how can you truly say that unless you see hard proof evidence in that instance you queue that somebody ilv cheesed? At this point is mindless paranoia just because CT is that unpopular among the veteran community. Just stop caring about it, the major reason it pops up frequently is due to new players needing to run it. Like really 80% of the time I get CT is due to somebody being new.

This tireless conversation goes nowhere and no amount of speculating will get the devs to want to make the raids less frequent since its tied to the msq. So this topic is entirely pointless. I'm not saying that ilv cheating doesnt happen but that situation is a niche occurrence that dedicating resources to come up with a solution isnt worth it.

Okay, but where's the evidence to the contrary? Until then, it's devil's proof.

[Deveryn]

Okay, but where's the evidence to the contrary? Until then, it's devil's proof.

It's generally right there in your party menu. No one wants to admit that it's there. I ran alliance for a bit the last time this was more active and every time I got CT, I got a new player prompt and/or saw someone low level enough.

[Midareyukki]

It's generally right there in your party menu. No one wants to admit that it's there. I ran alliance for a bit the last time this was more active and every time I got CT, I got a new player prompt and/or saw someone low level enough.

nono, I got CT with someone who was stark naked, there was no newcomer. No one was in cutscene, there was no such prompt on the chat saying "Someone's new to the instance!". But someone was naked and then their HP bar miraculously grew.

So if it's such a placebo effect, where's the proof that it is indeed placebo? Because I'm willing to agree that there is no evidence that that person caused the instance to be CT, odds are I just happened to queue for it on a roulette, so it's RNG, thus there's no proof that the person caused it
.
But then I ask, okay but where is the proof that the person didn't cause it?

And here's the thing. If you think about it, odds are that's just how the roulette works and people who lower their item level get queued at random for instances that they can run, without dragging others in like it's assumed. Something I'm 75% sure happens. However, there's no confirmation that that's the case either, and that's what bothers me. Because if there's an exploit, then that should be looked into, and not blindly ignore it because "Well, odds are it isn't".

If there's evidence for it, then yay. Because so far we've only been relying on he-said, she-saw. Not actual code nor confirmation.

And that's the issue. Assuming this is indeed all paranoia, there isn't much to quell it. Which is why you see these threads constantly happening. I'm willing to admit it's probably not real, but I also don't have any convincing evidence to show me otherwise. Thus I assume it's real. Not "guilty until proven otherwise", but more the idea of "Okay, well... I'm willing to accept it might not be much, but are you sure it's not an exploit?"
And being told to shut up and accept it isn't answering that question. Hence, again, why these threads keep popping up.

[Atelier-Bagur]

nono, I got CT with someone who was stark naked, there was no newcomer. No one was in cutscene, there was no such prompt on the chat saying "Someone's new to the instance!". But someone was naked and then their HP bar miraculously grew.

So if it's such a placebo effect, where's the proof that it is indeed placebo? Because I'm willing to agree that there is no evidence that that person caused the instance to be CT, odds are I just happened to queue for it on a roulette, so it's RNG, thus there's no proof that the person caused it
.
But then I ask, okay but where is the proof that the person didn't cause it?

And here's the thing. If you think about it, odds are that's just how the roulette works and people who lower their item level get queued at random for instances that they can run, without dragging others in like it's assumed. Something I'm 75% sure happens. However, there's no confirmation that that's the case either, and that's what bothers me. Because if there's an exploit, then that should be looked into, and not blindly ignore it because "Well, odds are it isn't".

If there's evidence for it, then yay. Because so far we've only been relying on he-said, she-saw. Not actual code nor confirmation.

And that's the issue. Assuming this is indeed all paranoia, there isn't much to quell it. Which is why you see these threads constantly happening. I'm willing to admit it's probably not real, but I also don't have any convincing evidence to show me otherwise. Thus I assume it's real. Not "guilty until proven otherwise", but more the idea of "Okay, well... I'm willing to accept it might not be much, but are you sure it's not an exploit?"
And being told to shut up and accept it isn't answering that question. Hence, again, why these threads keep popping up.

If you're going to start acting paranoid of it, then I dont know what to tell you. Just that its a terrible mentality to have with people.

I dislike CT raids as much as the next guy but you dont see me crying about it thinking somebody decided to change their gears at the last minute. Being paranoid about such a thing is never good and it just comes off as annoying. Its pointless conjecture and honestly this topic ticks me off so hard because it just proves how much people like to nitpick about every stupid little thing.

Seriously who cares!

[Deveryn]

nono, I got CT with someone who was stark naked, there was no newcomer. No one was in cutscene, there was no such prompt on the chat saying "Someone's new to the instance!". But someone was naked and then their HP bar miraculously grew.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find enough examples of that to make a case for the alleged prevalence of this activity and its effect on roulettes. You can't even tell if everyone else present has all alliances unlocked. Something else that's been overlooked is that people will likely queue CT directly if it comes up on Wondrous Tails.

And that's the issue. Assuming this is indeed all paranoia, there isn't much to quell it. Which is why you see these threads constantly happening. I'm willing to admit it's probably not real, but I also don't have any convincing evidence to show me otherwise. Thus I assume it's real. Not "guilty until proven otherwise", but more the idea of "Okay, well... I'm willing to accept it might not be much, but are you sure it's not an exploit?"
And being told to shut up and accept it isn't answering that question. Hence, again, why these threads keep popping up.

Alliance roulette only offers two things of value, tomes and xp. Trying to raise hell over an easily avoidable situation with a variety of alternatives is going to come with responses like that.

I'll continue to push for a better solution that actually works for all parties. This idea of dumping it in MSQ roulette is inconsiderate of those that want to use that. It's also ridiculous to expect CT to ever fill on that.

And you know why threads like this continue to crop up?

Because it continues to be an issue.

More like y'all don't bother to check if there's an active thread. You have to come in and start a conversation and be the center of attention and demand something change instead of finding the one thread to support whatever idea.

[Midareyukki]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find enough examples of that to make a case for the alleged prevalence of this activity and its effect on roulettes. You can't even tell if everyone else present has all alliances unlocked. Something else that's been overlooked is that people will likely queue CT directly if it comes up on Wondrous Tails.

True. And that's correct. That person likely stripped anyway to get into a CT raid, it doesn't mean they caused it.

Alliance roulette only offers two things of value, tomes and xp. Trying to raise hell over an easily avoidable situation with a variety of alternatives is going to come with responses like that.

I'll continue to push for a better solution that actually works for all parties. This idea of dumping it in MSQ roulette is inconsiderate of those that want to use that. It's also ridiculous to expect CT to ever fill on that.

Okay? First of all, and? I didn't mention CT being moved to MSQ roulette. At all. It doesn't take as long as Praetorium AND it's not a 4-man thing, so even if I did, I'd agree with you.

Not to mention what you just wrote has nothing to do with the quote?
I'm talking about how you guys saying "There's no exploit, shut up" without evidence as to whether or not there is. Like, someone asked someone else in this thread "You don't know how Duty Finder works, do you?". Well, I ask the same: Do you? If so, can you explain how it works? And do you have proof that what you're saying is what really happens?

:shrug: I'm not talking about Alliance Raids themselves nor the experience yield or anything. I already agreed with you about that in the other thread anyway.

I'm really not sure where you got that from. I agree on you on both topics :I

I just want people to actually state as much and provide proof if able. Because naturally people can't prove that the exploit is real: to do so would require statistics that at the end of the day don't mean anything. That, and you guys ask for evidence that it's real, but you don't provide anything in turn, you just trash talk OP.

[Helbya]

and as I keep trying to bring the thread back to point; this isn't about the CT raids or their status as being the boring undesired raids for a roulette. But about encouraging players to make themselves available to all content in a roulette so the system works as intended. Orbonne needs players to fill, Bunker needs players. And so people trying to actively run those raids end up with disproportionally long queue times as dozens of CT raids take the players that might've helped those parties fill.
So scale the rewards to the item level at queuing. People who aren't comfortable with the class at 70 can opt for fewer tomes/exp. People who want a quick 'n easy raid can get tomes befitting their effort. Ivalice, Nier, Myths need love too.

More like y'all don't bother to check if there's an active thread. You have to come in and start a conversation and be the center of attention and demand something change instead of finding the one thread to support whatever idea.

The search function is super janky. There's two threads in the last 6mo and this is one of 'em.