Originally Posted by
Eisi
^And that's why there should be no timed party damage buffs at all.
I'm assuming this is sarcasm, but just in case it is not...
That everything pushes towards synergy around a lowest common denominator (or, with less potential for negative tone, what all or what little is in common between job kit timings) does not require that we either build around a single template. Rather, it simply pushes constraints elsewhere -- to fight design. Granted, it is a far tricker constraint, especially when trying to remain accessible without being reliant on capped or near-capped gear.
Presently, the timing by which damage is available IS the timing by which damage is done, simply because there is no reason to hold onto CDs (outside of Radiant Finale), in turn because there are so few relevant DPS checks or other means of enticing that behavior. Give those reasons, though, across multiple timing templates, and suddenly (especially with a lenient enough enrage) putting all one's eggs in a single basket becomes a hazard. You start to see additional reason to take sustained DPS or especially flex (those like SAM or DRK who have highly bankable output) even if they don't maximize synergy; you start to see reason to dabble in multiple timing templates ("rhythms"), even if one may remain dominant for the particular fight.
The difficulty, of course, is in balancing accessibility vs. mechanical relevance, since now job viability would require both -- the brittleness of certain kits in attempting to recover desynced tools vs. splitting the comp vs. simply taking enough sustained to deal with all minor checks (without failing major or final dps checks), whilst keeping minor, major, and final DPS checks all relevant. You don't want players to be required to have pre-figured optimal ways of meeting the particularities of a fight via compositions, but you do want those fight's peculiarities to be relevant so that compositional selection doesn't just devolve to caring only about final checks and therefore investing only in the best set of synergies among bursty buffers+exploiters (which, to be relevant at all, must be tuned to outperform sustained dps in a perfected/optimal comp).
:: Note that this does not mean that every DPS check needs to be pass or wipe; you can have something charge up even the most lenient of resource-taxes --say, a big damn DoT or a loss to Attack Power & Offensive Magic Power-- that scales with remaining unit HP, boss phasal HP, "cast armor," etc., such that failure to meet a check makes the next one that much harder, without being an instant wipe.
_____________
Originally Posted by
Sqwall
This is exactly my point. Two min burst is here to stay, and going to such great lengths to change and adjust jobs is a telling sign imo. The older jobs are getting outdated do to the shear fact that the newer jobs have been setting the example for years now. It's no longer viable to have jobs designed with ARR, Heavensward, and Stromblood blue prints. Like it or not....savage and ultimate set the stage for how jobs are designed. When you have to perform at such high levels, your job has to just work under heavy load.
Design flaws are starting to show with certain jobs:
Monk - Pretty much nearly unfixable in it's original state and was the outlier for literal years. Monk was it's on worst enemy with RNG, and it's ridiculous amount of bloat that nobody used. Six sided star, tornado kick (pre ogcd), anatman, one ilm punch, stances, greased lightning.
These issues actually have/had nothing to do with the 2-minute formula, though, and little even to do with later day job design trends (beyond portion of damage that can exploit buffs; even portion of damage exploiting buffs hasn't much changed, since the modifiers were greater back in the day). Nor were they worsened by it. (See/expand below.)
While we couldn't hold onto a TFC specifically for raid buffs, we still tended to generate multiple within any full raid burst, so the banking margin was more the issue than the RNG when it comes to 2-minute meta play.
It took only 4 GCDs to get up to speed (essentially 3 in late Stormblood due to WT-RoW), so original GL wasn't uniquely slowing down raid burst.
Six-sided Star and Anatman, meanwhile, are just bad for their own reasons, and not even for the niche they provide towards so much as that they're both underpowered tools. SSS is tuned too low to be more than painfully niche for most content and Anatman's value usually falls to about 40 relative potency simply because it of its unnecessary constraints / lack of sensible additions (no Chakra generation). They're both well allocated tools; they simply need to do more.
The same could be said for old Tornado Kick. It was a partial (i.e., nearly tuned around PB) refund on potency lost to ramping up GL that could be spent early if one desired. It made perfect sense up until GL was (needlessly but not, imo, too harmfully) removed. (Also, it being oGCD is the old design. The GCD design, as an obsolete Blitz finisher, is the new.)
Similarly, One-Ilm Punch was never any issue, as Monk had more than enough AoE despite spending 1 in 3 sustained GCDs in AoE on single-target skills (ultimately just offering it a bit more focus targeting atop a fully decent AoE kit). Rockbreaker was tuned to do then what Shadow of the Destroyer does now, significantly more powerful than its competing AoEs (just one other in RB's case). It simply happened not to be well used even in what situations a DR-less stun might be useful because Monk was already strapped enough for TP (especially without wasting TFCs on Purification), since the devs could never be bothered to reiterate on that system itself before scrapping it entirely.
The same is mostly true of your other examples there. They haven't been left to dry due to the 2-minute meta or new job trends per se, but simply because of the removal of various keystone elements/systems/mechanics and players losing hope (or, becoming disillusioned) as to there ever being a place designed in for varied utility to see value.
Reply With Quote
