I miss old AST cards

[ForsakenRoe]

No, just oddly specific comparisons

[FireMage]

No, just oddly specific comparisons

No, it was mass hyperbole. Look up the word in the dictionary if you have to

[ForsakenRoe]

Maybe you should, while you're there you can look up 'strawman' so you can stop using that wrong too

[FireMage]

Maybe you should, while you're there you can look up 'strawman' so you can stop using that wrong too

I already have the requisite education to use both words correctly. Fact is your long winded post was full of hyperbole, class flavor hasn't been removed for balance on any singular job ever

HW/SB 'fast, sustained damage DRK' turning into SHB 'WAR, but edgy' DRK, AST cards, SCH losing it's DOTs, SMN losing it's DOTs/pet control aspects, MCH moving from gun class to go-go-gadget bottom-of-the-dps-charts, NIN losing aggro management tools, Tanks in general losing aggro management as a gameplay factor, Healers losing Cleric Stance as an optimization (HW Cleric Stance can stay gone, but the SB role action was ok), classic WHM skill Protect completely removed instead of being reworked into a WHM specific thing, any potential difference in identity Sage could have had beyond 'what if SCH didn't have to fight it's fairy to do OGCDs', list probably goes on but it'll all be waved away with 'strawman!' as usual I suspect

why am I even trying

DRK, still revolves around proper use of MP, and has one of the busiest bursts in the game still, try again. AST cards were imbalanced, they are still a facet of the Job though. SCH gained, yes gained, more identity by removing some of its SMN jank. SMN, has gained better identity with EW. MCH gained identity with its expansion of tools. NIN lost no identity with the removal of tools that only punished tanks if they weren't used. Tanks, see prior, also imagine actually saying that aggro management is class identity, yikes. Healers losing CS was for the benefit of the role. WHM Protect punished any non WHM comp. SGE and SCH are practically night and day, you should know this. Like holy hell, you should know better than this given your skill, sad. Also 20 post daily limit is cancer

[ForsakenRoe]

HW/SB 'fast, sustained damage DRK' turning into SHB 'WAR, but edgy' DRK, AST cards, SCH losing it's DOTs, SMN losing it's DOTs/pet control aspects, MCH moving from gun class to go-go-gadget bottom-of-the-dps-charts, NIN losing aggro management tools, Tanks in general losing aggro management as a gameplay factor, Healers losing Cleric Stance as an optimization (HW Cleric Stance can stay gone, but the SB role action was ok), classic WHM skill Protect completely removed instead of being reworked into a WHM specific thing, any potential difference in identity Sage could have had beyond 'what if SCH didn't have to fight it's fairy to do OGCDs', list probably goes on but it'll all be waved away with 'strawman!' as usual I suspect

why am I even trying

[Mithron]

So you are saying that we should homogenize all jobs so they all have a DoT and close to no damage oGCDs?

Not at all. I want the opposite. The only reason you really care about haste is because all jobs are currently homogenized to a 2 minute burst window. Having less homogenized jobs would mean haste would benefit some jobs more than others (like better on a BLM than a BRD), giving a lot more fun to the game, not only for the AST but for the receiving player as well. I had a blast playing BLM with Arrows.

Healers losing Cleric Stance as an optimization (HW Cleric Stance can stay gone, but the SB role action was ok)

I really really miss HW Cleric Stance. Stance dancing was so much fun to me, the feeling of committing to DPS for at least 4 seconds was very satisfying to skillfully use.

[ForsakenRoe]

Not at all. I want the opposite. The only reason you really care about haste is because all jobs are currently homogenized to a 2 minute burst window. Having less homogenized jobs would mean haste would benefit some jobs more than others (like better on a BLM than a BRD), giving a lot more fun to the game, not only for the AST but for the receiving player as well. I had a blast playing BLM with Arrows.

I purposely built DRK in 4.4 with a skillspeed build, at the time there were two sets the Balance recommended, one using Tome chestpiece and going full crit/dhit, and one that used the raid chestpiece and going more for skillspeed. I even did some maths and found that by changing one overmeld on one ring I could get another 0.01s shaved off my GCD, taking me to iirc 2.06 under Blood Weapon. Good times... And SAM had builds ranging from base SKS to like, 2200 (GCD of like 1.95 under Shifu) and they were all within 1% of each other somehow (I played the fast one cos it was fast), I don't get how the same team that managed that balance, now has 'easier to balance kits' on the healers and somehow they're still as far apart as they are

[Marxam]

While the cards would be op in todays meta, the one thing I don't understand why they removed Minor Arcana (4.0 version). That one ability quite literally replaced Undraw in every way. It was always live when you drew a card, reduced the rng of bad cards so it doesn't mess up you RR (or seals if implemented in EW), and gave you beneficial effect via Lady/Lord. It did everything in one button and replaced a dead one as well. The MA we have now is just button bloat and Undraw still is in the game but ironically its not in pvp. At least the cards there function well and aren't a hinderance on controller.

EW Minor Arcana only made it worse and still didn't remove Undraw. There was nothing wrong with Royal Road and all they had to do was adjust the card effects. If they kept all the card effects of 4.0 but replaced Spire's TP regen, to a movement speed buff I'm sure you would see a large difference in overall appeal to cards. ex. don't have a SCH in party? Just use a Spire expanded and you have a movement speed buff similar to fists of wind from MNK. RR was simple to understand, had ways to mitigate and negate rng, every card was useful, less spam and was overall easier on controller.

[Payadopa]

class flavor hasn't been removed for balance on any singular job ever

That made me legit lol while reading.

[ForsakenRoe]

DRK, still revolves around proper use of MP, and has one of the busiest bursts in the game still, try again. AST cards were imbalanced, they are still a facet of the Job though. SCH gained, yes gained, more identity by removing some of its SMN jank. SMN, has gained better identity with EW. MCH gained identity with its expansion of tools. NIN lost no identity with the removal of tools that only punished tanks if they weren't used. Tanks, see prior, also imagine actually saying that aggro management is class identity, yikes. Healers losing CS was for the benefit of the role. WHM Protect punished any non WHM comp. SGE and SCH are practically night and day, you should know this. Like holy hell, you should know better than this given your skill, sad. Also 20 post daily limit is cancer

DRK used to be not-all-about-burst, thats the point, it had a more sustained damage profile that didn't care as much about 'fit everything into this 15 seconds'. AST cards might have been imbalanced but throwing the baby out with the bathwater is kinda stupid, same with Dark Arts spam, HW had no complaints about DA, it was only when they made EVERYthing DA'able in SB that people got RSI, and instead of changing DA to have 'less often but more impactfull effect' it was just flat out removed and changed to Edge spam, Darkside management got completely removed as you now generate 2 mins of buff timer every 1 min of gameplay, you have to literally TRY to let it fall off. SCH 'gained identity' is the biggest joke I might have seen all year, being able to succor the team, then later deploy that same succor off of the fairy hit the 'genius tactician' identity far better than what we have now. We also lost the unique Esuna animations of Leeches and Exalted Detriment, just to put Esuna in Role Actions where people might forget to pick it up, and let you die to the Doom at the start of Exdeath. Good 'balance'. SMN got 'closer to the original SMN fantasy' yes but some people liked the OLD identity is my point. They like DOT classes or pet classes or whatever, and the game's slowly removing that as features, more and more DOTs are removed because 'oh engine cant handle over 60 debuffs on the enemy'. Stop putting weird pointless stuff on classes, like why is Trick Attack a debuff and not a selfbuff for NIN, why did they add Shadow of Death to RPR when they removed Heavy Thrust from DRG. NIN manipulating aggro was an aspect of 'identity' whether you like it or not, being able to trick an enemy into attacking the wrong thing is like, ninjas do the log-substitute in media all the time, of course it makes sense they'd be able to log-substitute technique into their very tanky ally.

Actually I take it back, 'imagine saying aggro management is class identity' is the biggest joke I've seen all year and it's not even close:



Healers losing Heavensward Cleric was of benefit to the role yes, and I said as much. Losing SB Cleric (15sec of 5% increased damage) just meant losing a tool that could be used to optimize damage with. WHM original Protect punished people for not having WHM, that's why they changed it so Protect always had the Proshell effect. That was at HW launch though so IDK why you bring it up. What I mean is, Protect has been a staple WHM skill in older games for forever. Instead of reworking Protect into, IDK, 'single target % mitigation' like Aquaveil now is, they just removed the skill entirely. Heck, they could have made it Aquaveil but lower level, that upgrades via trait INTO Aquaveil and that'd be fine by me. SCH and SGE:



As 'night and day' as Eos and Selene are

That made me legit lol while reading.

Me too, but in a 'I have to laugh because if I don't, Ill cry in despair' kind of way