EndWalker's Deep Dungeon

[SannaR]

Snips

I have a lot of doubts on if we will touch on anything related to the Ivalice stuff unless they bring Mastsuno back or get an ok from him. I also don't think everything will be tied to the variant dungeons either. Just that I think things like Gelmora or it's Limsan equivalent would be touched on through that. I feel other places whatever they may be that won't be explored by the MSQ will be explored via other side content like how we got Hells Lid and Swallow's Compass as part of the Four Lords. Or we got introduced to Turncliff via the Weapons storyline. They could also take the route of a Tribal quest line. If you're talking about the crashed Allagan site on the moon. That's just a satellite that was ment to help keep track of Dalmud.

Again I'm not saying that trying to explore other civilizations wouldn't be cool or fun. Just don't expect much when many of those places especially those that aren't around anymore is going to be hard. As it would be like trying to find a motherload of information on Mycenean Greek culture. Due to again six very destructive calamities. I'm not sure how destructive an Ice Age is by itself when it comes to destroying towns ect. Vs it being destructive due to things becoming scarce and thus places becoming abandoned. Unlike raging Winds, Fire, Thunderstorms, and Floods and very angry Primals.

[Midareyukki]

snep

On the Ivalice thing, this is besides the point a little but I really want them to NOT invite Matsuno again. Matsuno's great on his own, FFXIV is great on its own. But it just feelt to me like they didn't mesh the two styles well enough. And stuff needs a bit more background and development behind it, one that if they can't get Matsuno to work on, they should get other people to do so.

And even so, all the things you said ARE valid stuff. POTD is Gelmorra, we have the Four Lords, we visited Terncliff... aaaand what? What else was done with that information? It felt rather self-contained, did it not? To me, so too did the one Allagan period they use. And again, I understand... but I won't deny that I kinda want other stuff than just that same thing.

And I'm not saying that exploring the Allagans are a bad thing in and of themselves, but I feel like while it's natural, it's still a constant thing they go for. With all the rest being either vacant or just one-note. When thre isn't much of a need. Also, an ice age can at the very least prevent you from building quite a few things due to a lack of resources. Not everyone can live in cold climates like the Lost, the Ishgardians and Garleans

[SannaR]

On the Ivalice thing, this is besides the point a little but I really want them to NOT invite Matsuno again. Matsuno's great on his own, FFXIV is great on its own. But it just feelt to me like they didn't mesh the two styles well enough. And stuff needs a bit more background and development behind it, one that if they can't get Matsuno to work on, they should get other people to do so.

And even so, all the things you said ARE valid stuff. POTD is Gelmorra, we have the Four Lords, we visited Terncliff... aaaand what? What else was done with that information? It felt rather self-contained, did it not? To me, so too did the one Allagan period they use. And again, I understand... but I won't deny that I kinda want other stuff than just that same thing.

And I'm not saying that exploring the Allagans are a bad thing in and of themselves, but I feel like while it's natural, it's still a constant thing they go for. With all the rest being either vacant or just one-note. When thre isn't much of a need. Also, an ice age can at the very least prevent you from building quite a few things due to a lack of resources. Not everyone can live in cold climates like the Lost, the Ishgardians and Garleans

I guess my question then to you at least is why would you want such little lore about those places be tied to a DD? As the other two were kinda bare bones.

[Midareyukki]

I guess my question then to you at least is why would you want such little lore about those places be tied to a DD? As the other two were kinda bare bones.

I never said that's what I wanted. What I said was that I didn't want the lore to be associated to it to be the same old already-beaten thing. What I wanted was for them to use DD as a way to expand on other cultures and lores elsewhere. Because we already have quite a lot exploring Allag.

Which, I reiterate, 9 out of 10 times, they only pick the moment where they invaded everything because ambition, and then they got shook. Rarely do they ever elaborate on anything past that.

[SannaR]

I never said that's what I wanted. What I said was that I didn't want the lore to be associated to it to be the same old already-beaten thing. What I wanted was for them to use DD as a way to expand on other cultures and lores elsewhere. Because we already have quite a lot exploring Allag.

Which, I reiterate, 9 out of 10 times, they only pick the moment where they invaded everything because ambition, and then they got shook. Rarely do they ever elaborate on anything past that.

Yes, but this is an ugh Allagans got into the next DD thread. Thus if we were keeping the lore tied to the next DD why would you want another nation's lore tied to something that so far hasn't been shown to have much meat on them? As iirc HoH was just hey you wanna try your hand at the thing we use for training and then later find out it was Allagan tech. And PotD was hey this Gelmoran area has a strange thing happening with it only to have the story revolve around an antagonist from a different game and some closure for poor Eda. Wouldn't you want stuff about Bozja or even a non Mach or Allag but still really old nation get more than a 10min CS that you get after beating the last storyline floor boss?

[Midareyukki]

Yes, but this is an ugh Allagans got into the next DD thread. Thus if we were keeping the lore tied to the next DD why would you want another nation's lore tied to something that so far hasn't been shown to have much meat on them? As iirc HoH was just hey you wanna try your hand at the thing we use for training and then later find out it was Allagan tech. And PotD was hey this Gelmoran area has a strange thing happening with it only to have the story revolve around an antagonist from a different game and some closure for poor Eda. Wouldn't you want stuff about Bozja or even a non Mach or Allag but still really old nation get more than a 10min CS that you get after beating the last storyline floor boss?

Because that's what happened the first time? All we know and knew of Gelmorra is that after the Elementals had a hissy fit, people hid in underground tunnels until they asked "pretty please" and the Elementals let them build Gridania. We don't really know much else from Gelmorra past that. It required Edda and Nybeth to give it some further plot.

Also, this doesn't invalidate the Allagan bit whatsoever? Yes, it's "ugh" because how often are we going to recycle the same thing now? Are we cows that ruminate on the same food over and over?

And of course I would like to have more than just a tiny cutscene worth of things for lore. I'm well aware that Deep Dungeons are small snippets unlike massive content that go deep (pun definitely not intended) into the lore.

Again: the issue isn't them adding lore to anything. It never was for a second. You're being stubborn on this, when I've already made it quite clear. My issue is that they're defaulting to the same lore over and over, when you have other places that could do with a bit more, EVEN IF it's something small. Because the issue isn't quantity nor quality. It's how repetitive it's being.

I refuse to repeat myself any further. Either you understand this much, or you're just going to have to deal with it.

[Iscah]

Because that's what happened the first time? All we know and knew of Gelmorra is that after the Elementals had a hissy fit, people hid in underground tunnels until they asked "pretty please" and the Elementals let them build Gridania. We don't really know much else from Gelmorra past that. It required Edda and Nybeth to give it some further plot.

Whatever "further plot" Edda and Nybeth added to PotD, it had literally nothing to do with the Gelmorrans or their culture. Making it useless as a showcase for Gelmorra.

I don't even know if the majority of the dungeon is meant to be Gelmorra at all. We found the portal into it in the Gelmorran ruins, but it seems to be an alternate dimension either disconnected from the true Gelmorra or so warped it doesn't count as history.

We learn nothing of Gelmorra at all, and the archaeologists who were previous working there have been driven out by the Wood Wailers and/or the danger of the portal.

[SannaR]

Because that's what happened the first time? All we know and knew of Gelmorra is that after the Elementals had a hissy fit, people hid in underground tunnels until they asked "pretty please" and the Elementals let them build Gridania. We don't really know much else from Gelmorra past that. It required Edda and Nybeth to give it some further plot.

Also, this doesn't invalidate the Allagan bit whatsoever? Yes, it's "ugh" because how often are we going to recycle the same thing now? Are we cows that ruminate on the same food over and over?

And of course I would like to have more than just a tiny cutscene worth of things for lore. I'm well aware that Deep Dungeons are small snippets unlike massive content that go deep (pun definitely not intended) into the lore.

Again: the issue isn't them adding lore to anything. It never was for a second. You're being stubborn on this, when I've already made it quite clear. My issue is that they're defaulting to the same lore over and over, when you have other places that could do with a bit more, EVEN IF it's something small. Because the issue isn't quantity nor quality. It's how repetitive it's being.

I refuse to repeat myself any further. Either you understand this much, or you're just going to have to deal with it.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I understand that you want lore of other places and that you wish this DD wasn't dipping into the same pool again. What I'm trying to ask is what culture would you have wanted it to be before we knew we'd be dipping our toes back into more Allagan stuff? That and you seem to be very much wanting lore about various places so much so that I'd think you'd want a bigger quantity of it then what little you'd be getting it from the amount we normally get when it comes as part of a DD story. Since all a DD needs is give us a reason why we would want to explore the upper or lower floors. Only to find out what the thing we explored really is or was used for. All you seem to be getting is me somehow asking you why do you not want more Allagan stuff that just happens to be tied to a DD. When I've been trying to ask you what culture would you want instead and why so little of an offering. Let alone try and explain why it would be hard to find something intact for any other old cultures. Or why the Devs might not want to delve more into some of the ones you'd want more of. In that some of those places could be reserved for other side content that tends to give us more than a watermelon seed's worth of info.