Is SE planning to deal with ilvl cheese people?

[Deveryn]

I wonder if they are capable of making the alliance roulette with rotations according to expansions, that changes weekly.
For example this week would be ARR, next week HW, followed by SB the week after, then ShB + EW.
I figured the current expansion could merge with the previous expansion's alliance raids since it will take months to release one.

Waiting whole weeks is a bit much. That idea would be better as a daily rotation a la Frontline. The trouble with the overall idea is the potential to make the non-CT queues worse.

You can keep trying to deflect using the people legit queueing for it but it doesn't matter at all. I don't mind getting CT sometimes, it's part of the roulette. I do mind seeing naked people at the start of the duty quickly throw their gear back on because they are ARTIFICIALLY increasing the odds of getting CT and it happens all the time.

Tons of people have posted solutions for it in this very thread, feel free to read any of them. The situation is essentially the same as when they had to nerf pvp experience because of the massive amount of people afking in to farm. I understand that certain types of people will always take the path of least resistance for them to the detriment of everyone around them.

I'm not deflecting anything. I've acknowledged it all. It's a shame that people cheese, but a lot of people just don't lose sleep over it. What's more of a shame is bailing on a duty. What are you doing queueing roulette or even playing an MMO if you're just going to leave because your panties are already in a bunch?

I've read all the ideas and commented on most of them, if not all. That's why I keep asking for better solutions. I've yet to see an idea that doesn't end up putting someone else at a disadvantage. Fussing with the item level and job level frankly sounds messy, ineffective and a little extreme. You'll still have people forcing you into CT, so why did they waste time setting this up?

Maybe instead of focusing on me and coming up with these garbage takes, you could take some time to really think about a solution that would actually work for EVERYONE.

[Deceptus]

They will never do that because their main concern is to cater to new players, they don’t want new players to wait around or go completely helpless into duties. Thats why every damn time there’s some event, whatever gives the most tomes it’s always crystal, labirinth, world of darkness and of course, preatorium. I wish they removed it from msq, better for all of us.

That goes back to my first point though, if a single person in the alliance raid needs a CT run, it would default to that and you'd get a newbie bonus.

Which is one of the reasons you see CT so much it only takes a single person out of 24 to need it for it to pop.

...You do realize that they are directly queueing it for the MSQ, correct? And when they do, they automatically drag 23 other players with them that are queueing for alliance roulette?

And that there's infinitely more people doing this for the CT raids then any other raid?

Alliance roulette isn't a self-contained bubble. people hard queueing for the raids will get their queues filled from people in alliance raid roulette.



They can, but why? As Deceptus said, you get to tackle two tasks with one queue. Tons of free exp + progress on a relic in a single 15min run, instead of doing them separately. Doesn't matter if they -can-, people love being efficient with their time.

Hey look, someone who gets the point.

[Midareyukki]

I've yet to see an idea that doesn't end up putting someone else at a disadvantage.

Depends on tone as well. Because if you see one flaw and shoot the idea on the spot, how different are you from everyone else throwing in absolutely ridiculous ideas?

Try this instead: Assume there's no perfect world, and therefore anything the devs do (whether we put it forward or not) will put someone at a disadvantage. Out of everything that's been presented by the players in this thread, is there anything that has a more minimal impact/lower causalities?

Because another thing to keep in mind is that there's also the perception of what is fair. You can have a system that does indeed disadvantage someone. But if the perception of it is a fair one, you won't find as many people complaining.

If I flip a coin 50 times and expect it to always land on Heads, I'm setting myself up for disappointment. But it's fair, because I have a 50% chance of obtaining a result at any given time. But if you place a magnet on the Heads side to increase the chances of me getting Tails, then I have a bigger reason to complain. Because then the chances are heavily skewed.
We all know CT will have the highest odds. Because it's not just mandatory, it's the default lv 50 roulette. But undressing yourself to force it to be guaranteed goes against the logic of a roulette. So saying "It's a roulette, it's bound to be random, you'll get CT in randomness, deal with it" is ignoring the fact that people are forcing the roulette to always land on a specific number.

Also, Deveryn, other people have mentioned reworking how the Synch system works. Because you're forced to mindlessly press the ludicrously oversimplified and barebones ARR "rotation" as it stands. It doesn't need to screw over the difficulty, it just needs to make things enjoyable. Some people aren't against CT itself for being easy, they're against it for being boring.

imo allowing the synch to work that way would also let new players to see how later skills look like and feel motivated/interested in levelling the job.

[Deveryn]

snip

Also, Deveryn, other people have mentioned reworking how the Synch system works. Because you're forced to mindlessly press the ludicrously oversimplified and barebones ARR "rotation" as it stands. It doesn't need to screw over the difficulty, it just needs to make things enjoyable. Some people aren't against CT itself for being easy, they're against it for being boring.

imo allowing the synch to work that way would also let new players to see how later skills look like and feel motivated/interested in levelling the job.

Regarding tone, I'm not going to make any effort to come across one way or another. People read stuff how they want to read it. I'm generally speaking very plainly. Someone goes on the attack and has a shitty idea... I let 'em know. I don't need other people to fight my battles.

I know there's no perfect world. I'm not looking for a perfect solution, but one that is a legitimate step forward. What's the point of changing things if the result is still the same, if not worse? The actual problem goes deeper than ilvl, but you and others want to blatantly ignore the facts in favor of some weird selfish crusade.

I'm not saying 'deal with it'. I'm asking if it's worth all this trouble. I posed the question of what anyone actually has to gain from the roulette that they can't get anywhere else and no one has dared answer... probably because that would prove me right on the point of alternatives existing. God forbid anyone should ever admit to being wrong about something.

If people want to be mad about it, that's fine, but at some point, they have to make a choice for themselves and their character. Be proactive and find another way or sulk here. Who knows when a change will come, if ever? Many of us have moved on and/or found other ways to handle this situation. That also affects the pool of players available for roulette.

Toying with sync doesn't fix the problem. What are you talking about with later skills though? I didn't see anything about an upward sync. If it was in the other thread, I'm starting to ignore it. Keep the damn convo in one place.

Can you maybe elaborate on some of these other points instead of talking about coin flips? It's actually the worst example because I can reliably flip a coin on the same side and get the same result every time.

[Midareyukki]

Above post

Yes, and if you can do that to a coin then you're willingly rigging it. Does it still count as random? That's the point.

And wasn't it in this thread where even Zebraoracle mentioned to you directly that one of the ideas posited was for them to rework the way level synch worked? So that when you synched down, your stats would synch down, but you wouldn't lose skills? Sure, it's not perfect, and it WOULD require work. But that's what they mean by that: invest in that work. Because as it stands, the further you get to lv 90, the more active and enjoyable the jobs tend to be. ARR's rotations are so barebones and barren that they don't even count as rotations. They're not fun. They're not engaging. They're boring and put people to sleep.

The issue isn't the difficulty of CT. If it's meant to be the easy alliance raid, then so be it. But if we're going to have them with this much frequency, at least allow the game to make them feel engaging rather than half an hour of the videogame equivalent of Xanax.

Edit: turns out no it wasn't, memory failed me. What Zebraoracle meant was item level synch.

[Brightamethyst]

So that when you synched down, your stats would synch down, but you wouldn't lose skills? Sure, it's not perfect, and it WOULD require work. But that's what they mean by that: invest in that work

The biggest problem with that design is that it's impossible to balance. How on earth do you balance Copperbell to accommodate the damage of a level 90 with the full kit and rotation and a level 20 with three buttons in the same party? Sure you can nerf the damage of level 90 into the ground to compensate, but who wants to do the whole song and dance just to get out DPS'd by a level 20 pressing one button?

[Payadopa]

But you pay to be bored

I don't actually. I just don't do it. Like old MSQ roulette. lol

[Midareyukki]

The biggest problem with that design is that it's impossible to balance. How on earth do you balance Copperbell to accommodate the damage of a level 90 with the full kit and rotation and a level 20 with three buttons in the same party? Sure you can nerf the damage of level 90 into the ground to compensate, but who wants to do the whole song and dance just to get out DPS'd by a level 20 pressing one button?

idk, how does Guild Wars 2 do it? When you go to a low level area, you still keep your skills, they don't go down with you. You'd be doing more damage than the average, sure, but is that so bad? There'd have to be a cap on stats and a greater understanding of how much APM there is. I did mention they'd have to work on it. And I did say it wasn't a perfect solution, but let's be real here: What even is?

Has anyone here presented a solution that actually helped?

Besides, I think the issue that what I said presents isn't really "oh lord, synching issues". It's more on how jobs are designed. Our lv 50 jobs are beyond boring, with jobs only coming into themselves at lv 70+
If we're going to implement such a thing, that's where I'd start fixing it. Otherwise implementing it blindly will of course garner even more problems than before. Hence why I said half a dozen times that people would need to WORK on it if they decided to go through with it.

[Raven2014]

I don't need to cheese ilvl to get CT, I never unlock other alliance raid to begin with. Big brain move on alts. And you have to generously bribe me to unlock them (especially the Ivalice raid).

[Deveryn]

I don't need to cheese ilvl to get CT, I never unlock other alliance raid to begin with. Big brain move on alts. And you have to generously bribe me to unlock them (especially the Ivalice raid).

My alt is like this too, except I unlocked Ivalice thinking I might hit Bozja. I just won't get involved in that roulette or any other raids.