NIN at 90? Easy or hard?

[Travel]

So, I was wanting to give Ninja a shot; always been a fan of dual-wielding swords/daggers in other video games, and Ninja is the only job in FFXIV that does that, so I'm giving it a shot. However... I've heard that Ninja is apparently one of the harder jobs to play at endgame, and from what I've seen, that's a bit true; it apparently has a fairly complex rotation, and a specific skill (Mug) that needs to be used at a specific time for everyone to benefit from.

That being said, I still really want to give the job a shot. I am not the best at team fights, I'll be the first to admit; I die faster than a fly with a smoking habit, I'm terrible at reading/predicting mechanics, and my ping isn't exactly the best, either, but I'm still going to learn this job to the best of my ability and do what I can to be as good of a player as possible.

So, how is Ninja at 90, for endgame dungeons and such?

[Ralphe2449]

Ninja is just the naruto weeb class of the game, just imagine you are a naruto universe ninja, they have like half the skills from the anime included at this point xD

In general ninja is quite busy during its burst window so if you get used to that after a while you should be fine, after that it is pretty relaxed waiting for things to be ready for the next burst window.

Ninjutsu might take some time to get used to but they become muscle memory quickly, I never had a latency issue with them with the exception of a lag spike causing one mudra not to register but it is often quite rare and you see the animation only happened twice instead of 3 times for example so you can at least avoid wasting it completely xd

[Mithron]

I find NIN to be one of the easier jobs in the game, especially the easiest melee. I often use it for progging and learning hard fights. You only ever single weave OGCDs and you only have two positionals, one of which you don't use very often. The burst window really isn't that busy because you're still only single weaving OGCDs during it, you're just pressing a variety of different buttons during it.

NIN is a great job to pick up and play. It looks like it has a higher skill floor, and perhaps it does while you're trying to memorize the Mudras, but once you do you find it has a pretty low skill ceiling like every other job in the game right now. Mudras end up being muscle memory after some practice, just like any other button in the game. I often recommend NIN as the "gateway" for new players to learn how to melee DPS in 14 because of how easy it is while also providing stellar numbers.

So no, NIN is not hard at 90 end game. The only two jobs I can say that for personally are SCH and BRD. GNB too if you hate the EW rotation and keep trying to force it into SHB playstyle which is a huge DPS loss.

[Quyn]

Im going to give a different answer here from Mithron's view. Please be advised that my views pertain to extreme and savage content. Outside those, your performance is less vital and therefore the effect of these points less impacting on your experience.

The hardest part of Nin isnt memorizing and executing the mudras but rather keeping track of all your spinning plates, especially during every 1 min burst window and fight mechanics combined.

If you drift your Trick attack/ mug, you have an issue.
If you lose track of your Huton buff, you have an issue.
If you forget to Suiton in the right timeframe every minute, to prepare for Trick window, you run into problems.
This is all of course on top of tracking and executing your repeating 1 min burst, that is somewhat complex to learn for the first time.

Ninja to me means constantly actively tracking timers and anticipating the next trick window, pooling ninki every minute for it, while splitting my attention also to mechanics.

This is much less the case on Samurai, Reaper or Monk I find.

The second part of the Nin difficulty are the devastating failure states that can occur on input mistakes :

if you double press a mudra, you lose the entire mudra charge for 0 dps, not only wasting the spent GCDs but also the 20 sec cd mudra charge, of which you have two.
On top of that you would also lose one of the following as a domino effect :
A Kassatsu Charge wasted.
A Suiton window missed and therefore burst drifted.
one less Raiju attack because you missed your raiton on the failed mudra.

If you move an inch during ten jin shi, a 120s dmg cd, you lose the entire charge for 0 dps as well.
if you use weapon skills after raiton, you lose the raijin charge entirely.

Ninja is a great class but it certainly punishes the player harder than any other DPS class for making mistakes. Perhaps BLM comes close? Im uncertain.


Once you get the rotation down and if tracking several things at the same time fits your personality, these issues arent as present. I certainly wouldnt call it a beginner class though, its fast, demanding and unforgiving.

[FireMage]

Im going to give a different answer here from Mithron's view. Please be advised that my views pertain to extreme and savage content. Outside those, your performance is less vital and therefore the effect of these points less impacting on your experience.

The hardest part of Nin isnt memorizing and executing the mudras but rather keeping track of all your spinning plates, especially during every 1 min burst window and fight mechanics combined.

If you drift your Trick attack/ mug, you have an issue.
If you lose track of your Huton buff, you have an issue.
If you forget to Suiton in the right timeframe every minute, to prepare for Trick window, you run into problems.
This is all of course on top of tracking and executing your repeating 1 min burst, that is somewhat complex to learn for the first time.

Ninja to me means constantly actively tracking timers and anticipating the next trick window, pooling ninki every minute for it, while splitting my attention also to mechanics.

This is much less the case on Samurai, Reaper or Monk I find.

The second part of the Nin difficulty are the devastating failure states that can occur on input mistakes :

if you double press a mudra, you lose the entire mudra charge for 0 dps, not only wasting the spent GCDs but also the 20 sec cd mudra charge, of which you have two.
On top of that you would also lose one of the following as a domino effect :
A Kassatsu Charge wasted.
A Suiton window missed and therefore burst drifted.
one less Raiju attack because you missed your raiton on the failed mudra.

If you move an inch during ten jin shi, a 120s dmg cd, you lose the entire charge for 0 dps as well.
if you use weapon skills after raiton, you lose the raijin charge entirely.

Ninja is a great class but it certainly punishes the player harder than any other DPS class for making mistakes. Perhaps BLM comes close? Im uncertain.


Once you get the rotation down and if tracking several things at the same time fits your personality, these issues arent as present. I certainly wouldnt call it a beginner class though, its fast, demanding and unforgiving.

I have a question, why did you take anything Mithron said with any seriousness to warrant anything but derision? Their posts show that they are t-cupping hard as it is

[Equitable_Remedy]

However... I've heard that Ninja is apparently one of the harder jobs to play at endgame, and from what I've seen, that's a bit true

This just came up in another thread, so I'm going to quote my response from there:

As I NIN main, my impression is that NIN is one of the easiest melee jobs. It doesn't have a bunch of short term buffs to manage nor does it have any particular long-term complications in its rotation. Further, outside of burst, NIN is chill is pretty chill, which is great for doing mechanics, etc.

Perhaps NIN looks harder on paper than it is in practice - that was certainly my experience. When I started playing during ShB, I nearly didn't play NIN because it came across as quite complicated. Once I actually played it, I found that it wasn't particularly complicated at all (but felt very good to play).

Join us

[Rithy255]

Depends what you find hard. It's fairly easy for me once you learn it and practice it.

[Aurora428]

It's opener and burst phase are daunting but once you have that down it is among the (if not the) most straightforward melee

Ninja also has the unique ability to time suiton/use a raiton outside of burst to maintain GCD uptime at no/a very small loss

NIN is probably one of the most complicated melee to learn for a newcomer, but among the easiest to play optimally.

[wereotter]

Ninja has a lot of moving parts to keep track of, and they don't naturally flow into each other as there will be times you have to hold onto certain resources because a skill is nearing coming off cooldown or you set up other buffs, such as the suiton buff, for when you need to do a trick attack 20 seconds later.

Once you get the flow of it all, it can be a very fun job, but it does take a lot of practice to get to learn how to play.

Also don't listen to the comment above me. I explain it in another thread, but they are wrong about using raiton to disengage and maintain the GCD rolling. It's never done at no loss to total damage.

[Mithron]

The hardest part of Nin isnt memorizing and executing the mudras but rather keeping track of all your spinning plates, especially during every 1 min burst window and fight mechanics combined.

If you drift your Trick attack/ mug, you have an issue.
If you lose track of your Huton buff, you have an issue.
If you forget to Suiton in the right timeframe every minute, to prepare for Trick window, you run into problems.
This is all of course on top of tracking and executing your repeating 1 min burst, that is somewhat complex to learn for the first time.

Ninja to me means constantly actively tracking timers and anticipating the next trick window, pooling ninki every minute for it, while splitting my attention also to mechanics.

This is much less the case on Samurai, Reaper or Monk I find.

The second part of the Nin difficulty are the devastating failure states that can occur on input mistakes :

if you double press a mudra, you lose the entire mudra charge for 0 dps, not only wasting the spent GCDs but also the 20 sec cd mudra charge, of which you have two.
On top of that you would also lose one of the following as a domino effect :
A Kassatsu Charge wasted.
A Suiton window missed and therefore burst drifted.
one less Raiju attack because you missed your raiton on the failed mudra.

If you move an inch during ten jin shi, a 120s dmg cd, you lose the entire charge for 0 dps as well.
if you use weapon skills after raiton, you lose the raijin charge entirely.

Ninja is a great class but it certainly punishes the player harder than any other DPS class for making mistakes. Perhaps BLM comes close? Im uncertain.


Once you get the rotation down and if tracking several things at the same time fits your personality, these issues arent as present. I certainly wouldnt call it a beginner class though, its fast, demanding and unforgiving.

This is why difficulty is subjective: I don't find any of these things "difficult" whatsoever, and instead I find timing my Blood for Bloods and not drifting my jumps + animation lock on DRG much harder, or optimizing my opener with fight knowledge and gauge spam on SAM, or just not making mistakes or clipping on MNK. I can't speak much on RPR because I didn't find the job very enjoyable even after I got it to 90, so NIN has always been my "comfy" pick in extreme/savage. NIN was the second job I learned when I started this game back in HW, and I really enjoyed doing Alex savage back then as it. The straightforward nature of NIN's set up and execute is why I love it and find it much easier and beginner friendly. Your points are valid when learning, but I don't find the difficulty cap of learning those to be nearly as difficult as the difficulty cap of learning the other melee.

Ironically BLM is my other favorite DPS to play lol