What even is the purpose of all those non melee/blm jobs?

[Ggwppino]

They are more complex. Pretty basic

complex why? Do they have extra stuff to do? no, do they have extra stuff to think about during the mechanics? no, do they have less movement? currently not. So how are they more complex?

[Stasya]

Yes, it is. Proper balance demands difficulty be taken into consideration. The phys ranged performing under melee is how things SHOULD be

You really did not tried to play ninja or even looked at skills. You can save so many range stuff so you will never lose uptime even if you do strat that can force melee downtime sometimes. Atleast other melees have to suffer a bit in downtime.

And gameplay wise its literally same as dancer. You have 1 min/2 min cds rest you press 123 124 as ninja (gosh for dancer its 12 123 124 so different)

[Tiramu]

I blame Tiramu and those hot takes for bringing FireMage onto us.

Lol, sorry

[Tiramu]

It's worth noting that Lalachievements, which is an aggregate collection tracker, that utilizes publicly available data via the lodestone, you can get an idea of current completion rates via savage mount ownership.

This is not a complete data set, as some lodestones are private, but better than arguing a number Yoshi P provided offhand in easily digestible chunks.

Yes, thats one of the places I got my original clearing estimates from.

[Mikey_R]

complex why? Do they have extra stuff to do? no, do they have extra stuff to think about during the mechanics? no, do they have less movement? currently not. So how are they more complex?

Technically, positionals are a unique mechanic for all melee. They don't apply to every fight and you can negate the need to worry about hitting them with True North, however, planning the use of True North is again something the other DPS do not have to worry about.

[Ggwppino]

True North = Swiftcast

[Mikey_R]

True North = Swiftcast

And physical ranged don't have an equivalent, so technically, there is a bit more complexity in that regard.

[Ggwppino]

And physical ranged don't have an equivalent, so technically, there is a bit more complexity in that regard.

the physical ranged has to think about the various random procs that happen to him and how to use them in the best way, not having a rotation to learn muscularly. This leads him to pay more attention to the bar and less to the mechanics.

[Tsumdere]

Difficulty argument is so very dumb.

RPR, SAM, and NIN are all arguably easier for majority of people over BLM/BRD and yet crush them DPS wise.
Certain classes are absolutely shafted in some fights (see RPR/MCH in DSR) and incredibly difficult to play well there, but their counterparts have a much easier time and do more damage (NIN/DNC).

This isn't SB anymore where the hitboxes were small and melee had more positionals. Now the hitboxes are gigantic - you have to actively try to lose uptime - and most positionals are gone. Bosses cannot even be attacked during the most difficult mechanics where it would be difficult to keep uptime (Devour/Dog/High Concept)!

[Mikey_R]

the physical ranged has to think about the various random procs that happen to him and how to use them in the best way, not having a rotation to learn muscularly. This leads him to pay more attention to the bar and less to the mechanics.

That is just normal job rotation and not 'extra stuff', bearing in mind this whole things started as melee is more complex than physical ranged, so we are talking about roles as a whole and in that regard, MCH has no RNG, so it is not something shared with the role.

Going back, you mentioned a few things:

Do they have extra stuff to do? no

Which is false. Since Physical Ranged have no positionals and melee do, that is something extra.

do they have extra stuff to think about during the mechanics? no

Which is again false. Again, using positionals you have to consider how a boss moves during mechanics, whether or not you can hit the positional and then whether or not to use True North.


do they have less movement? currently not.

Technically yes, they have to stick to the boss and do not have free reign over tha arena like physical ranged do, so they are technically less mobile in regards to where they can stand, further reduced when a positional comes up.

Note that I am not saying that this makes a job massively complex, or that they should/should not balance around it, I am merely pointing out something that melees have to consider in an encounter that physical ranged do not. Having a faulty premise that leads to a conclusion is just going to cause issues and ignoring them will not make them go away. You can still agree that melees do have something else to consider and still bring the point that it should not be something that is considered in regards to dps, that is fine. That is your opinion. Just do not base it on faulty logic.

Also, yes, you can make similar cases for casters and physical ranged, what do they have that the other roles do not and then the further question of, should these factors be considered in regards to a job's damage.