Time to address the real problem - RMT buyers

[Jojoya]

the solution doesnt require bans or jumping through hoops
1. add glowing weapons to the mogstation people can buy
2. add easier ways to get gil, not time gating, not babysitting the market board. being able to buy gil on the mog station would kill them easiest way.
3. add hefty rewards to get people through that content could be glowing weapons too.
square can kill them by adding that service themselves, its 100 percent an accessibility issue, and super easy to solve.

Being able to buy gold via the WoW token is what ended up killing WoW for many of its players. Paid boosting got out of control. And RMT still exists in WOW. The vendors just had to adjust their prices to stay competitive with the token.

Gill is easy to get. It's not an effort free process but it's also not a strenuous one.

We've got lots of glowy weapons in the game that are easy to get - the crafted Primal weapons. Decide what you want, buy the mats needed, take them to a friend who's a crafter or even just ask in shout chat if you don't have friends. There's usually someone happy to do it if you already have the mats.

What is really needed? Patience. You don't need that latest and greatest item the first week of release. Wait for it to come down in price if you don't want to farm it yourself.

[dspguy]

It's really not that simple and beyond their scope.

Never said it was simple. By pure definition of the TOS, it is within their scope. That's like saying players that brazenly use third party tools are outside of their scope.

However, I do agree it isn't simple. Ultimately, the judgment calls would probably need a human a look at it, but a script could flag accounts based on various factors. For example, let's say they track the number of times a gatherer hits a node. Let's say a gatherer can commonly hit 3 nodes per minute. Put up a flag on an account where a gatherer hits up 1000 nodes in any 6 hour period. That isn't an outright ban of course. But, let's say that gatherer happens to trade list those 3000 ore on the MB (or trade them to some other mule). And then it shows that the player transferred millions of gil to another player or purchased some high-priced item that is well outside the standard deviation of MB sales (30M gil for a potion).

I'm overly simplifying it, but there are telltale signs. But it requires someone to look into it. Someone that needs to be a paid a salary. Just like everything else in life, it boils down to money. Let's say the RMT Strike Force needs 300K/year in salary. That's about 1,600 subs just going to pay their salary, before we even talk about other expenses. However, 3 people doing this job might be enough to make a dent if it was their only job. And over time they'd probably come up with better strategies than some guy making a forum post. At least, I'd certainly hope so.

[LianaThorne]

So...any real solutions yet?

[Kes13a]

Totally agree, in my experience only ONE MMO publisher has ever banned buyers, LOTRO way back, others like SE, Blizzard, etc. are simply too timid to make examples and lose the revenue of the low-lifes (buyers) who keep RMT in business.

there was a game I played years ago, Vanguard, and I bought currency, my partner wanted some extra cash and convinced me to do it. I mean why not right? no one ever gets caught.

After my week vacation, I never bought anything like that again. it works. only the most die hard of people with no regard for their account or the work they have put into it, would do it again. this is how I know it will work if SE started doing that. first offense, a week vacation from the game, people notice that... a lot. Second violation NEEDS to be a permanent ban. no vacation just gone. no one wants to lose everything for a convenience. if they do this in conjunction with their low hanging fruit bans, it will take time, but it will resolve the issue.

the amount of players they lose to this will be insignificant compared to the positive press they would gain.

hit the buyers, the overall issue lessens. attack the problem, not the symptoms.

[LianaThorne]

there was a game I played years ago, Vanguard, and I bought currency, my partner wanted some extra cash and convinced me to do it. I mean why not right? no one ever gets caught.

After my week vacation, I never bought anything like that again. it works. only the most die hard of people with no regard for their account or the work they have put into it, would do it again. this is how I know it will work if SE started doing that. first offense, a week vacation from the game, people notice that... a lot. Second violation NEEDS to be a permanent ban. no vacation just gone. no one wants to lose everything for a convenience. if they do this in conjunction with their low hanging fruit bans, it will take time, but it will resolve the issue.

the amount of players they lose to this will be insignificant compared to the positive press they would gain.

hit the buyers, the overall issue lessens. attack the problem, not the symptoms.

Issue comes with how do you detect what is RMT gil and what is not? For example, say I go deathroll at a casino and win 100m gil and get my winnings either through direct trade (rip fingers in that case) or by having the person buy something off a mannequin or the marketboard (I personally haven't won this way but a friend of mine has several times when we've gone out). Is that going to be considered RMT because the amount of money won was large or will there be a way to differentiate so people who do enjoy casino based games can still continue?

Follow up question: If casinos are going to be considered RMT, what is keeping other gil based venues from not being also considered RMT? Would the entire nightlife scene need to be taken down?

[Dubolomus]

It might be easier. I have a friend in FC and I gave him four million gil for a house. Just because I could afford it. Moreover, I took this gil from Alt on another server. And the gil was transferred through another player. Is this a violation of the RMT?

Sorry for my English.

[AngelCheese77]

Strengthening Enforcement Against Real Money Trading (RMT) Activity



Players use their services because there is no penalty for doing so.

Because there are players willing to use their services, banning accounts related to RMT sales has little effect. They simply make a new account with part of the profits from their previous transaction, knowing that the profits made with the new account can be used to start yet another account when it gets banned in turn.

If you want to shut down RMT, you need to shut down those who are funding their industry - the buyers. That's only going to happen if you start aggressively pursuing them, penalize them in a meaningful fashion then publicize that pursuit and the resulting penalty. Make it clear to other players who are considering RMT that it is not worth it.

That doesn't have to mean permanently banning an account for a first offense. Some players (especially younger ones) may not really understand the serious problems caused by RMT. But a 30 day ban with an accompanying explanation of how RMT impacts the game for everyone should send the message loud and clear to those willing to listen.

Those not willing to listen that are caught a second time? Permanently ban the account. Take away everything that player has worked to get for the past several months.

Those found to be engaging in RMT would of course have the chance to appeal their bans. False positives can happen.

It's also a good way to collect some very funny stories from the cheaters that can be used to help publicize the actions that are being taken against RMT buyers and the futile excuses some use trying to escape punishment. Player names would not be used since that would be a privacy violation. The player names could be replaced with the names of FF franchise villains for additional entertainment, and potentially attract even more attention in the player community to the problems caused by RMT.

But honestly, SE. If you truly want to do something about RMT activity, you need to go after those who create the need for the RMT services in the first place and you need to make it very clear that you are doing so. Any business will end up going out of business if they can't get enough customers.

That's how you need to fight RMT - drive away their customers.

I agree with this. I don't understand why more companies don't go strongly after the buyers. OSRS does (Jagex). C'mon SE, do the right thing.

[Deveryn]

So...any real solutions yet?

You forgot to use "/s"? Look at where you're asking.

It might be easier. I have a friend in FC and I gave him four million gil for a house. Just because I could afford it. Is this a violation of the RMT?

Sorry for my English.

Did you get "real money" in that "trade?" If no, then you're fine. If yes, don't say so here.

[Themarvin]

Strengthening Enforcement Against Real Money Trading (RMT) Activity



Players use their services because there is no penalty for doing so.

Because there are players willing to use their services, banning accounts related to RMT sales has little effect. They simply make a new account with part of the profits from their previous transaction, knowing that the profits made with the new account can be used to start yet another account when it gets banned in turn.

If you want to shut down RMT, you need to shut down those who are funding their industry - the buyers. That's only going to happen if you start aggressively pursuing them, penalize them in a meaningful fashion then publicize that pursuit and the resulting penalty. Make it clear to other players who are considering RMT that it is not worth it.

That doesn't have to mean permanently banning an account for a first offense. Some players (especially younger ones) may not really understand the serious problems caused by RMT. But a 30 day ban with an accompanying explanation of how RMT impacts the game for everyone should send the message loud and clear to those willing to listen.

Those not willing to listen that are caught a second time? Permanently ban the account. Take away everything that player has worked to get for the past several months.

Those found to be engaging in RMT would of course have the chance to appeal their bans. False positives can happen.

It's also a good way to collect some very funny stories from the cheaters that can be used to help publicize the actions that are being taken against RMT buyers and the futile excuses some use trying to escape punishment. Player names would not be used since that would be a privacy violation. The player names could be replaced with the names of FF franchise villains for additional entertainment, and potentially attract even more attention in the player community to the problems caused by RMT.

But honestly, SE. If you truly want to do something about RMT activity, you need to go after those who create the need for the RMT services in the first place and you need to make it very clear that you are doing so. Any business will end up going out of business if they can't get enough customers.

That's how you need to fight RMT - drive away their customers.

You need to address the players who uses them, if no one used these services they would be none existing.

1 month ban if taken, taking part in a RMT thing for first time time offense, second time, account termination, problem solved, if had a house would even lose that or those.

[Dubolomus]

Of course I didn't take real money. But how to prove it?