Abyssos is fun for tanks because Warriors can't cheese it

[Atreides]

I just like the Idea that holding aggro is something you have to give a bit of thought to.

That was never a tanks job in FFXIV though. Even back then when enmity management was a thing it was a team efford and mostly handled by the DPS rather than the tank. Back then we had Ninjas with Shadewalker giving tanks enmity and smokescreen to reduce a targets enmity generation. Other DPS had diversion and even healers had enmity reducing abilities.

All they did with the enmity change was to make our life easier because we don't have to deal with DPS that don't know how to manage their aggro anymore.

[ForteNightshade]

You gotta see past invuls, it's more about the whole mitigation and utility of the off tank aside from raid wides and spamming mitigations to the main tank, the fact that one tank doesn't even need healers for the most part is ridiculous

This is only applicable to dungeons. Bloodwhetting is among the weaker CDs in Savage. This notion that Warrior is some sustain monster in high end content because it can cheese dungeons really needs to die. Warrior has good sustain, yes. This is also balanced by the fact it takes more damage on a given average. In P7S, Dark Knight will always have TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind for every single buster. That's a ridiculous amount of mitigation. Even in P5S, where busters are mostly physical, Dark Knight still has an equal spread of CDs, Living Dead is also still useful as you can let the bleed proc it then heal yourself up. Warrior doesn't have that luxury as the bleed renders Holmgang worthless.

What isn't balance is Dark Knight doing 300+ more damage than Warrior with a max potential doubling that. It effectively renders Warrior useless outside prog. And this is even after they buffed it.

[Oizen]

This is only applicable to dungeons. Bloodwhetting is among the weaker CDs in Savage. This notion that Warrior is some sustain monster in high end content because it can cheese dungeons really needs to die. Warrior has good sustain, yes. This is also balanced by the fact it takes more damage on a given average. In P7S, Dark Knight will always have TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind for every single buster. That's a ridiculous amount of mitigation. Even in P5S, where busters are mostly physical, Dark Knight still has an equal spread of CDs, Living Dead is also still useful as you can let the bleed proc it then heal yourself up. Warrior doesn't have that luxury as the bleed renders Holmgang worthless.

What isn't balance is Dark Knight doing 300+ more damage than Warrior with a max potential doubling that. It effectively renders Warrior useless outside prog. And this is even after they buffed it.

I disagree with the notion that this is only applicable in Dungeons, as it was definitely a thing in Asphodelos and the Extreme fights. I remember WAR absolutely trivialized the last unreal too compared to the other tanks.

However yeah Abyssos has been specifically designed by someone at Square Enix who really hated WAR cheese of previous tier, and it resulted in WAR's entire lifesteal gimmick coming up weak as a result of all the bleeds.
Living Dead honestly isn't terribly useful on these either, the benefit it has over Holmgang is its a singular button vs 3 to 4 buttons. But then you'll still need a healer to bail you out when using it, which is honestly probably how it should be given Holmgang's 240s CD still generally makes it the best Invul for lowering the ammount of damage your team has to deal with as a whole. WAR's double Invul cheese still has a place in P6s and P8S P2.

If Abyssos is going to be the new design philosophy going forward, and I doubt it is given the Healer Shortage as a result of this tier being particularly taxing on them, then yeah WAR could use more raw mitigation.
That said if we revert to the damage levels of Asphodelos, and stop putting bleed on every single raid wide and tank buster then I think WAR is perfectly fine there, and this will just have been a tier that countered its kit because Sqaure Enix doesn't plan things out.

[RyuDragnier]

If Abyssos is going to be the new design philosophy going forward, and I doubt it is given the Healer Shortage as a result of this tier being particularly taxing on them, then yeah WAR could use more raw mitigation.
That said if we revert to the damage levels of Asphodelos, and stop putting bleed on every single raid wide and tank buster then I think WAR is perfectly fine there, and this will just have been a tier that countered its kit because Sqaure Enix doesn't plan things out.

I'm really hoping they don't revert it, this tier has been mad fun. Our resident WAR main has been loving the fact he can't cheese everything, and our healers are loving how they're actually having to push themselves to get us through the fight. The healer problem really is separate, and mostly because of not only the shift in party responsibility (DPS have to mitigate or it's likely you'll wipe now) leading to people blaming healers for things out of their control, but because of complaints with healer DPS design we've had for a while.

The healer DPS thing I really understand for casual content, because running Variants as a healer is so boring with how often you're spamming that 1 DPS move, over and over again...and the monsters aren't doing enough damage for you to have to GCD heal yourself...I almost fell asleep that run outside of the bosses.

[Undeadfire]

Abyssos is fine stopping Invuln cheesing

The problem is everything too big with their hitboxes removing existence of positioning, all we're doing is fighting dummies that do mechanics.

[Kemeko]

Further stress removed and ends up taking it to the extreme. Bosses can't be moved but have scripted paths instead, and incorporate a savage trust system for solo attempts.

[RyuDragnier]

Abyssos is fine stopping Invuln cheesing

The problem is everything too big with their hitboxes removing existence of positioning, all we're doing is fighting dummies that do mechanics.

I think everybody agrees with the hitbox size being too big, that part is absolutely ridiculous.

[AttilaHetzel]

definitely a subjective take. I personally found it more fun when tanks actually had to balance dmg and enmity while also moving the boss into position. What we have now are just glorified striking dummies that re-center and face N for mechanics every time. Not to mention hit boxes so big that I question why we have more than one charge of gap closer.

This is true on Endwalker, there's like no movement for the bosses and that's boring, I remember talking this on DSR with my co-tank... we're not moving the boss at all, and the only cool part for us was phase 6 and 7, 6 due to mitigation planning being kind of free for us to decide, and phase 7 with the stance dance, fighting enmity with DPS does sound more fun for sure.

[AttilaHetzel]

This is only applicable to dungeons. Bloodwhetting is among the weaker CDs in Savage. This notion that Warrior is some sustain monster in high end content because it can cheese dungeons really needs to die. Warrior has good sustain, yes. This is also balanced by the fact it takes more damage on a given average. In P7S, Dark Knight will always have TBN, Oblation and Dark Mind for every single buster. That's a ridiculous amount of mitigation. Even in P5S, where busters are mostly physical, Dark Knight still has an equal spread of CDs, Living Dead is also still useful as you can let the bleed proc it then heal yourself up. Warrior doesn't have that luxury as the bleed renders Holmgang worthless.

What isn't balance is Dark Knight doing 300+ more damage than Warrior with a max potential doubling that. It effectively renders Warrior useless outside prog. And this is even after they buffed it.

Again you're focusing on the current tier, I'm talking strictly about endgame not dungeons here, if you can't do that with WAR maybe something is wrong. I know the bleed made warrior invul useless and that's the point of the post lol

[AttilaHetzel]

I disagree with the notion that this is only applicable in Dungeons, as it was definitely a thing in Asphodelos and the Extreme fights. I remember WAR absolutely trivialized the last unreal too compared to the other tanks.

However yeah Abyssos has been specifically designed by someone at Square Enix who really hated WAR cheese of previous tier, and it resulted in WAR's entire lifesteal gimmick coming up weak as a result of all the bleeds.
Living Dead honestly isn't terribly useful on these either, the benefit it has over Holmgang is its a singular button vs 3 to 4 buttons. But then you'll still need a healer to bail you out when using it, which is honestly probably how it should be given Holmgang's 240s CD still generally makes it the best Invul for lowering the ammount of damage your team has to deal with as a whole. WAR's double Invul cheese still has a place in P6s and P8S P2.

If Abyssos is going to be the new design philosophy going forward, and I doubt it is given the Healer Shortage as a result of this tier being particularly taxing on them, then yeah WAR could use more raw mitigation.
That said if we revert to the damage levels of Asphodelos, and stop putting bleed on every single raid wide and tank buster then I think WAR is perfectly fine there, and this will just have been a tier that countered its kit because Sqaure Enix doesn't plan things out.

Whoever that was on SE I love them, glad to see my point came across for some people <3 (I don't hate warrior players and my "hate" for the class is mostly due to these constant cheeses that are very commonplace on my data centre, is really annoying)