Whatever happened to “We don’t balance fights around healers needing to do damage?”

[GoatOfWar]

It's not like healers need some super complex rotation, I just on a healer want something basic to keep up with, maybe a few procs a small rotation like I don't get how that ruins healers at all (people say that for some reason).
Even adding a small rotation to Sage or something would go a mile for healer job design and variation.

Sure it's called a "healer" but it's not like you have the tank spam riot blade and turn on stance, they generally have more simple to digest rotations compared to most DPS (Excluding current PLD, jobs kinda wacky but the most interesting tank), obviously tanks don't have to focus on support as much as healers but it doesn't mean they deserve one button and a dot. I just want a bit more thought into design

Another argument is that:
"it only effects casuals, healer is hard!" while healers might be "harder" it doesn't mean adding a few extra spicy buttons to a healer will make the job unplayable or super difficult.
also casuals should be took into account at least in my opinion, teaching healers that they're the 1 button job with a dot makes a lot of healers switch jobs lol.


Some people enjoy current "healer design" that's fine, I just don't and I don't think one button spam appeals to everyone, and maybe they should consider just adding a little more to healers, remove pointless stuff like cure 1 too plz, make it a upgrade trait.

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

[Elizasylen]

In fact most people liked those buttons

[Deceptus]

The statement was mathematically proven wrong and showed that Yoshi-P doesn't have a full understanding of what his design team is doing.

The left hand not talking to the right sort of situation.

[Nizzi]

The statement was mathematically proven wrong and showed that Yoshi-P doesn't have a full understanding of what his design team is doing.

The left hand not talking to the right sort of situation.

Honestly, one of the reasons I think they don't like players having access to numbers is because it can prove them wrong when they say things that are not true. I don't want to be someone who assumes the worst of Yoshida, but I think he is aware of what his design team is doing and just hopes that most people take his statements on design decisions as "word of God," which a lot of people in this community do already.

Imagine if we didn't have the numbers to prove his statements about Scholar wrong - everyone who asked for more DPS buttons or DPS buttons back would get hit with "Yoshi said that Scholar players were greedy and not healing, so you can't have DPS buttons back! SE's metrics show that healers can't handle more DPS!" We already get a ton of people who believe this, but can you imagine if you couldn't disprove it with the numbers?

[ForteNightshade]

While being curb stomped in P8S I Suddenly remembered. I swear they used to always say they don’t I balance fights around healers needing to do damage. Whatever happened to that? I don’t think there’s a single fight in panda or even the extreme trials you can do without healer damage at all.

Yoshida walked that statement back either near the end of Stormblood or early into Shadowbringers. I can't recall which. Either way, they've since changed it to healers will need to contribute DPS if the group is looking to clear in the early weeks. They pretty much had to acknowledge it after players were pointing out the last turns were straight up impossible without healer DPS. In fact, even E11S week one couldn't be killed without some contribution from both healers. Meanwhile, it wasn't until week three you could kill Shiva and have both healers deal zero damage.

[Rilifane]

And that is only if everyone without exception brought their a-game.
The average or even good party wouldn't be able to do it. It would be hardly fair to expect everyone to play at 95+ just so the healers don't have to press dps buttons. Even after unlock, not a single party I've been in would've been able to clear e8s without some contribution from healers and that was with a bunch of overgeared people and late tier strats.

[Dogempire]

It's not like healers need some super complex rotation, I just on a healer want something basic to keep up with, maybe a few procs a small rotation like I don't get how that ruins healers at all (people say that for some reason).
Even adding a small rotation to Sage or something would go a mile for healer job design and variation.

Sure it's called a "healer" but it's not like you have the tank spam riot blade and turn on stance, they generally have more simple to digest rotations compared to most DPS (Excluding current PLD, jobs kinda wacky but the most interesting tank), obviously tanks don't have to focus on support as much as healers but it doesn't mean they deserve one button and a dot. I just want a bit more thought into design

Another argument is that:
"it only effects casuals, healer is hard!" while healers might be "harder" it doesn't mean adding a few extra spicy buttons to a healer will make the job unplayable or super difficult.
also casuals should be took into account at least in my opinion, teaching healers that they're the 1 button job with a dot makes a lot of healers switch jobs lol.


Some people enjoy current "healer design" that's fine, I just don't and I don't think one button spam appeals to everyone, and maybe they should consider just adding a little more to healers, remove pointless stuff like cure 1 too plz, make it a upgrade trait.

Honestly if anything adding more buttons adds more responsibility in terms of damage compared to only having one button to spam.

If you're just mashing one button you get a chance to look at the party, sure, but there's nothing satisfying to it, if anything I would call dps more of a chore than anything. It's not enjoyable or fun, but we have to be responsible and do it.

I honestly just miss the days when healing was more involved, it can be "fun" nowadays but only in the sense where you play it because you want to turn your brain off and chill out

[Dogempire]

That didn't seem to be a problem when they removed scholar's damage buttons. There were people who liked having those buttons.

God, I remember when Shadowbringers first dropped and I was excited to play through the story again on Scholar since it was my favorite job at the time.

I took one look at the skill changes, counted up all the damage buttons and everything that was taken away, and immediately swapped to being a dps main.

Sad in hindsight but things haven't gotten better since

[GoatOfWar]

God, I remember when Shadowbringers first dropped and I was excited to play through the story again on Scholar since it was my favorite job at the time.

I took one look at the skill changes, counted up all the damage buttons and everything that was taken away, and immediately swapped to being a dps main.

Sad in hindsight but things haven't gotten better since

The only thing we can do is quit playing healers. After all, we're no longer their target audience. There's no depth or room to optimise healer gameplay at all because they're tailored to new players. They made both the skill cap and skill floor as low as humanly possible.

[ty_taurus]

Honestly if anything adding more buttons adds more responsibility in terms of damage compared to only having one button to spam.

If you're just mashing one button you get a chance to look at the party, sure, but there's nothing satisfying to it, if anything I would call dps more of a chore than anything. It's not enjoyable or fun, but we have to be responsible and do it.

I honestly just miss the days when healing was more involved, it can be "fun" nowadays but only in the sense where you play it because you want to turn your brain off and chill out

I disagree with this statement on principle. What adds responsibility to DPS is the amount of time healers have to comfortably DPS, not the amount of buttons they have. Healers could go down to only 1 DPS button or add in 50 DPS buttons, if everything else is consistent, then the amount of time healers will have to spend on DPSing is identical.

SCH having more DPS buttons in the past was never an issue from a healing standpoint back during a time where healing regularly meant using your GCD on Adloquium and Succor, so what magically changed?